Open-Ended Tech Levels?

[Eric Bamberg]

I don't know if this idea has been brought up before (for all I know it's a feature of practically every mod out there) but is it possible to have open-ended tech levels? For example, in the normal game there is a limited number of levels of cloaking (3?) with a slightly larger level of scanners. Would it be possible to create a set up where there is no maximum limit to the level of cloaking and scanners, where there could be a constant race between the two technologies? It seems that something like this could be interesting for cloaking, scanners, ship sizes, shield and weapon phasing levels, etc.

I've looked at the various text configuration files, but there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to do it. I suppose a similar effect could be achieved by manually adding in an incredibly large number of levels (I've seen the ultimate ship size mod -- very cool) but it would be nice if there was a way to just set up certain tech areas as being unlimited.

Or maybe my games just Last too long. One of the things I love about SEIV is how *big* it is, compared to other space 4X games. So many systems, planets, players, technologies, etc. I'd love to see a game that had infinite levels in all of those areas (subject to memory limitations). I suppose empires with thousands of planets would be impractical for multiplayer games, but they'd be fun for singleplayer ones.

Eric

[geoschmo]

Unfortunatly (or maybe fortunatly ) there is no way to leave a tech open ended as you suggest. What you said about adding additional levels of a component is the only way to do it. You would be only limited by the number of components that can fit in the compnents.txt file. Which is 64,000 compnents according to Malfador.

Geo

[Suicide Junkie]

The other way to approach it is to increase the research point cost of everything. Then, when/if your games Last longer than normal you'll still be plugging away at tech.

(I assume you are already using Research Cost set to High...)

Extending the shorter tech threads out to Level X instead of III or V would do wonders as well. At medium & high costs, the incremental cost of techs increases exponentially.

[Andrés]

At least in ship sizes I made a mod where they grow until they become too big to be practical.
You can't make it open ended, but it's possible to add say 50 more levels of cloaking.

[chewy027]

eric, what you just described (infinite tech levels) is something that i am working on in a game i am doing with a bunch of other people. Yes it is a 4X game and yes it is definitely *big*

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: chewy027 ]

[Andrés]

Actually I used a spreadsheet to make the ultimate vehicle size mod and then combined the values into a text file.
Something similar could be done with some components / facilities ect.

Yes this game is really huge but for some reason we want to make it much bigger!

[Shyrka]

I once ask for the same thing, Eric. I HATE scrapping all my scientific and research facilities when all tech levels are achieved. In later stages of a game, the technology part simply disappears. That's not logic, IMHO.

An idea could be making some features of components or facilities "infinite". I mean, for example, the power of direct-fire weapons. With a technology called "Direct-fire power" with infinite tech levels of dramatically growing cost. The result of achieving each level is a small increase of all your direct-fire weapons power. The cost is important. For example:

Direct-fire power: +Y damage of every DF weapon

Cost(level 1) = X rp.
Cost(level 2) = Cost(level 1)*2 rp.
Cost(level 3) = Cost(level 2)*4 rp.
Cost(level 4) = Cost(level 3)*8 rp.
...

Same could be done with seeker speed, armor resistances, storage capacities, etc. So, scientific research will always be a very important thing, no matter how many time the game Lasts.

It's only an idea

[Eric Bamberg]

Shyrka, what you describe is exactly what I was thinking. I've never seen a 4X game where technology works like that, although chewy027 says he's working on one. I'd be very interested in seeing it when it's ready.

I figured that it probably wasn't possible to mod SEIV to have infinite tech levels. It's a fundamental change in how the tech system works. I wonder if it would be considered for SEV, though.

It's been suggested that ship sizes could increase to the point where they would be too big to be practical. That is a possibility, although I think that could be controlled by economic issues, especially in a finite resources game.

This discussion has made me interested in creating a not-infinite-but-still-pretty-darn-big tech mod. Ideally, I'd like to include not only extensive levels of technology, but a tremendous variety of technologies. Of course, I've never created a mod before (in fact I've only been playing the game for a few months) so it's not something I can see whipping up over the weekend. There are so many things to consider... how to make the tech interesting, how to balance it so that research doesn't eclipse all other considerations in empire management... I can hear the wheels spinning already.

Eric

[Fyron]

MOO2 had infinite tech levels. Each tech level would make the stuff in that tech tree a little bit smaller, so you could put more stuff in the same amount of space, thereby making weapons and such more powerful with each new tech level.

[geoschmo]

You know I have heard that about MOO2 before. I never played it. (Although a friend handed me the disk today. I shall check it out soon, just out of curiosity.)

How is it practical for this to go on for ever? I mean dont you reach a point where the size of the comp is equal to whatever unit of size is used for components? There has to be some point at which you have say, "that's small enough"

Geo