OT: good fantasy books

[BandarLover]

Very interesting topic. I know of some of the writers mentioned but some I've not heard of. I pretty much grew up on Tolkien, so I compare everyone else to his works, often unfairly I admit.

I also like Terry Goodkind. His Sword of Truth series does have an annoying habit of enormous plot build up, and then wrapping everything up in the final chapter. But the world he's created is very interesting.

I also enjoy Cecilia Dart-Thornton. I've only read two books, and honestly don't know if she has more but they were both very good.

And even though he didn't write fantasy per se, Richard Adams is one of my favorite authors as well. Shardik is probably the closest to fantasy, though Watership Down does have a lot of rabbit mythology in it.

So there's my two cents worth.

[Teraswaerto]

BandarLover said:
And even though he didn't write fantasy per se, Richard Adams is one of my favorite authors as well. Shardik is probably the closest to fantasy, though Watership Down does have a lot of rabbit mythology in it.

Adams is great. Maia, the prequel to Shardik, is even more fantasy I think.

[Edi]

Teraswaerto said:
I think you misjudge Martin, Edi.

The world he writes about is violent, and the fact he does not gloss over it is one of the things that make him a great writer. The fact that being a main character is not a guarantee if surviving does not mean he's "run out of ideas", just that for a while he told the story from the point of view of someone who doesn't live to see its end.

Also, I don't see how you can say Martin has too much rape and torture and then list Prince of Nothing as "good fantasy".

The difference is the way they go about it. I know there's quite a bit of sex and also rape in Prince of Nothing, but Bakker hardly dwells on it the same way it jumps out from Martin's books. Case in point, there's the scene from SoIaF where Daenerys is married off to the barbarian and what follows reads like something from a pedophile's wet dream. Then there are some scenes where it is, completely out of the blue, brought up how the Lannisters' soldiers have tied women to stocks and are raping them etc ad nauseam, in places where it does not serve the plot at all.

In Prince of Nothing, I have a hard time remembering similar occurrences completely out of the blue. Black Company also has its share of mentions of what the mercenaries do to captured women, but that's just it, mere mentions without going into the gory details. Martin's writing in those instances reminds me far too much of Terry Goodkind's bull****.

I do understand that opinions may vary and that some people like Martin's work even in those instances that I deplore, and that is their right. It's also my right to express my own opinion on the subject, and at least I can enumerate sound reasons for those opinions of mine other than just some nebulous gut feelings.


Xietor, of J.V. Jones's books, Barbed Coil is standalone. Book of Words and Sword of Shadows can be read independently of each other, but I would recommend reading Book of Words before Sword of Shadows for reasons that will become VERY clear at the end of A Cavern of Black Ice. It is not necessary, but it will greatly enhance your understanding of the backstory and some other things.

Deimos, which books by Jones did you read? Granted that Book of Words is like drying to drink tar in some places, but once you get through those patches, it's good. The Sword of shadows trilogy is an order of magnitude better and much faster-paced, which just shows how much she has developed as a writer.

[Edi]

Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series was tolerable for the first two books. Three and four were just tedious and everything after that is just thinly veiled preaching of his (neoconservative libertarian) political views interspersed with liberal sprinklings of masturbatory rape fantasies that should turn the stomach of most decent people.

It had good ideas to begin with and up to and including the end of the fourth book and even the Chimes in the fifth, but those good ideas are not nearly enough to counter all the screwed up ****e in his works.

[Xietor]

I agree with Edi somewhat. The early Martin books are excellent, despite what i think is overkill on feeding a man's
prurient interest. To me, there were two major drawbacks in the books, and the unnecessary and somewhat offensive aggressive feeding of the prurient interest is somewhat degrading to the intellect of the reader.

Second, martin himself admitted that killing off too many main characters was what stumped him in continuing the series.

He DID kill off too many of his major story lines, by his own admission, and the creation of new ones, like that stupid female knight, was a poor substitute for some of more interesting characters he killed off.

To add insult to injury, when he finally(years later and after burning the 1st effort) managed to publish another book in the series, it does not include anything about the 2 most interesting characters left alive, Jon Snow and his crippled little brother.

I would strongly advise against buying A Feast for Crows, but i do recommend the earlier books. His earlier books get an 8/10 but could have been even higher had he not dwelled on the issues raised by edi, which assumes the average fantasy reader is a 15 year old boy wanting masturbation material. The killing off of main characters is fine to a degree, but not if leaves the storyline bereft of meaning.

And it is not open to debate that he killed off too many main characters, martin admits that mistake himself.

[Teraswaerto]

SPOILERS ABOUT A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE!



Edi,
What happens on the wedding night between Khal Drogo and Daenyrys is important to the story. Though Daenyrys is forced to marry him, she comes to love him and accepts her part as Drogo's wife. Everything that follows is built on that.

Also, she is not a preteen, so your pedophile remark is not accurate. Modern laws about age of consent are just that, modern.

Likewise, descriptions of brutality done by soldiers of the warring Houses are important. Writing about war and passing by the ugly parts is very common, and as I said before, the fact that Martin doesn't do so speaks in his favor.

I can understand that one can be repulsed by such things, but that is quite a separate issue from whether or not the books are good. Not that I'm denying your right to an opinion, but like you, I like to explain my point of view.



SPOILER END

[Actuarian]

Here some books that haven't been mentioned yet.

Robin Hobb is a wonderful author. All of her book are really good, but her Assassin Trilogy is a must read.

Kate Elliott - Crown of Stars series (this definately has a Dominions feel to it)

Stephen R. Donaldson - Thomas Covenant/Illearth series

Raymond E Feist - The Riftwar Saga

Marion Zimmer Bradley - The Mists of Avalon
Guy Gavrial Kay - Fionavar Tapestry trilogy

John Varley - Gaea Trilogy (Wizard, Titan, Demon) - this is clothed as science fiction, but it's really fantasy.

Ursula Le Guin - The Earthsea Trilogy

[crumply]

Jack Vance--The Dying Earth

[Actuarian]

Teraswaerto, I agree with your points regarding Martin, but I wouldn't want any of my kids reading him. You should try Robin Hobb if you haven't already. She and Martin both write darkly, and convey a similar feeling of desperation and a sense of fatalism.

[Deimos_tw]

I was unfair to robert jordan in that post, the first few were immersive, excellent stuff, i mean, years on and i still remember lots of it, I guess the trouble was he wrote so much pedantic tripe inbetween the bits of interest as the series progressed it became a slog.

J.V. Jones..bakers boy to master and fool, it wasn't a scratch on the pawn of prophecy et al imo, but each to their own.

Not sure Brian Lumley could be defined Fantasy in the strict sense, but the necroscope books were entertaining nonetheless.

I hit reply and some guy steals most of the meat, eh - Feist and Donaldson were awesome, yay.. Donaldson though, like Jordan seemed to write for chapters on end at a time with no objective other than to get words on the page. Feist is like Eddings, but with more than half a plot

C.S. Lewis - ja, well, not read him since I was a kiddle, but then they were wonderful, avoided going back to them incase they aren't as good as I remember - why spoil a good memory eh ;-)

A few others that are struggling to raise their heads out of this foggy swamp of a mind.