OT: Politics

[Archonsod]

UncleYee said:
If we are, why? Tolkien, who if I understand it denied that his writings had an overt political leanings, none the less painted a very simple black and white world.

Oh, I doubt Tolkien has anything to do with it. Over here he is probably the epitome of Right Wing. Much as he may have denied it, there are several political themes in his work (such as the scouring of the shire in ROTK - written at a time when socialist/soviet rebellion was a very real danger).
As for his black & white viewpoint, I've seen that been put down to Catholicism (he's less subtle than CS Lewis, but the basic moral structure is similar).

I can see why Fantasy gamers would be considered more liberal (at least in the US) than the conservative traditional wargamers though. The whole magic and gods thing is probably a main contributary factor - the church has problems with such things, which means the more conservative Christians (over here most conservative Americans are usually seen as being Christian too, though I don't know if that's a stereotype or accurate) would likely also have an issue with such things.

Mind you, having said that I do know people who simply alter the basis of magic and similar in their games. I know of one Christian group who replaced the D&D magic system with one based on their faith (i.e. spells became 'miracles' or angelic gifts).

[DrPraetorious]

Well, okay, what effect does/should politics have on dominions 3?

Disclaimer: I am wasted. Like, european grade wasted, because I didn't have to drive home (I live in NYC.) FREEBIRD! In may parts of this country, you can't get this drunk without being arrested. Why? Because this is a blue state and we love freedom.

So, we ask - what effect did politics have on medieval wars? Especially medieval *religious* wars? How can we work political effects into the game without a major engine rewrite?

Disclaimer: One time in Austin, I got really wasted and puked, not on, but *near* a cop. He got some splatter, that's my point. But he was pretty cool, I was with this girl (can't remember her name was, it was cinco de mayo but she wasn't really mexican, guatamalan or something), anyway, the cop was cool, much cooler than NYDP would have been, he was all like "fine, take him home if that's what you want to do" to the girl. Austin is a pretty blue town, but definitely a red state, so perhaps I'm bigoted.

Anyhoo, politics had *huge* impact on religious wars, especially in europe. The 30 years war wasn't really a religious war, it was a political war that used religion as a proxy.

So, especially in the late era, when religion becomes something more than just a proxy for tribal affiliation, it's reasonable to have a large number of political units - inquisitors and stealth preachers, particularly, but also deacons and even outright komisars. The major european LA powers (Marignon and Ulm) already have such units, but there's more to it than that. Any suggestions about how to handle this game-mechanically?

[Teraswaerto]

Archonsod said:

Oh, I doubt Tolkien has anything to do with it. Over here he is probably the epitome of Right Wing. Much as he may have denied it, there are several political themes in his work (such as the scouring of the shire in ROTK - written at a time when socialist/soviet rebellion was a very real danger).
As for his black & white viewpoint, I've seen that been put down to Catholicism (he's less subtle than CS Lewis, but the basic moral structure is similar).

You are wrong. Also, less subtle than C.S. "Aslan is Jesus!!!" Lewis?

[Archonsod]

Meant to say "more subtle". I blame Eurovision

[HoneyBadger]

Aslan was a big lion who talked.

Some people see Jesus' face in potato chips. Now I realize that it was C.S. Lewis's point that Aslan was supposed to be Jesus, but maybe the potato chip company is really religious too.

It's all in how you interpret these things.

[HoneyBadger]

Do we have to get in to religion in the politics thread?

[Gandalf Parker]

I would have said "in most countries, yes".
But lately its been the US also so... yes

[SlipperyJim]

Archonsod said:
I can see why Fantasy gamers would be considered more liberal (at least in the US) than the conservative traditional wargamers though. The whole magic and gods thing is probably a main contributary factor - the church has problems with such things, which means the more conservative Christians (over here most conservative Americans are usually seen as being Christian too, though I don't know if that's a stereotype or accurate) would likely also have an issue with such things.

Just FYI: I am a conservative, Bible-believing Christian who happens to love Dominions 3. No, pretending to be a demigod in a computer game does not bother me, nor do I believe that it offends God. God is easily smart enough to tell the difference between reality and fiction. For similar reasons, I am also a Harry Potter fan....

Now back to your irregularly-scheduled OT thread!

[MaxWilson]

SlipperyJim,

Fair enough--I'm Christian as well--but looking at the history of D&D it's still a valid observation that the, uh, more fundamentalist (evangelical?) Christians are less likely to be a fan of simulating pagan religious warfare. And fundamentalism is a form of conservatism, so IMHO Archonsod's point is valid.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that the MegaGame might show us that game of politics is going to become a major factor in Dominions 3.