Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (finished)

[Tuidjy]

> Well, if you're already struggling to find enjoyment in playing a game before the
> game's even begun, why bother playing it in the first place?

1. Because I said that I would, and I would like to test the New Ulm.
2. Because I think that bringing up the perceived(?) unbalances before the game,
and proving that they exist during the game is the best way to end up with a
balanced nation.
3. Because I there is a chance that I will not start next to Hoburg.

> Frankly, you're depressing me, and you're making BandarLover cry.

Well, I am sure that BandarLover will extract his revenge if need be.

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> Tuidjy, would you like to trade nations with me? For sure if I see you next
> to me I WILL STEAMROLL all over you.

No, because I want to play Ulm. And I know that you will roll me up, because
I could not find a counter although I played both side in a few games. A SC
works, but Ulm cannot really afford one.

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> And one more thing, I can't find the free summons with the Hoburgs. Where
> do they get that?

One Officer of the Great Kitchen (or something) gets 5 soldiers of the line.
They are not completely free (the officer has upkeep, and so do they) but at
worst they cost 4g/0r to produce.

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> if you aren't willing to accept a little unbalancedness since this is the first
> time all these mods have been put together in a MP environment, that you run as
> fast and as far from this game as quickly as possible.

There is always time to run, especially when one is being chased. But before you
go looking for tar and feathers, why doesn't someone try to explain why it is
necessary that the hoburgs' equipment be so freakishly uber?

[LoloMo]

After further review, I am tending towards agreeing with Tuidjy. I would rank this version of Hoburgs somewhere around the vicinity of Helheim strength for the early game, providing of course that you optimize it for the blitz. Pretty strong compared to the vanilla game. Have no idea how it compares with the other mod nations though.

Some possible counters:

Early game counters: Trampling units, star fires, air shield bless, tangle vines

Mid game counters: Arrow fend

Late game counters: with only 6 hps, pretty much any type of battlefield wide damage will wipe the whole legion off. Foul vapors, Fire storm, poison cloud, fire cloud, etc. There are a few map spells that should be able to wipe off entire armies too.

[HoneyBadger]

Repeater crossbows make for good counters, too

[Tuidjy]

> Early game counters: Trampling units

I do not think that any of our nations have tramplers. And good luck getting
them in range. These are massed crossbows we are talking about.

> star fires,

No. Assuming the very best of luck, star fires will kill two midgets per shot.
This will not make a dent in the horde, and the mages will be in range.

> air shield bless

Very expensive to be effective, and works only on blessed. Furthermore, the
midgets are anything but easy to kill. Insane defense and heavy armour means
that in addition of the air bless you would need a fire bless. And an earth
bless, because the horde takes a long time killing.

> tangle vines

Very short range, no damage, and even with low strength, the midgets have a
decent chance to break out. There will be enough of them, unfortunately.

> Repeater crossbows make for good counters, too

Not really. He will be getting a kill with nearly every hit, you will be
getting a kill with about a quarter of yours. And his guys will be more
numerous, less expensive, will have a shield, and will outrange you. Good
luck getting anywhere as many hits, even with a shot every turn.

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In middle and late game, the midgets will not be a problem. They can do next
to nothing against thugs, and Evo5+ spells will eat them alive. But by that
time, they will have easily ruined 1-2 players.

And by the way, why is it that size one guys have higher strength and the same
health as humans? Dwarves this tough should be size two.

[lch]

I now have received pretenders from everybody yesterday except Sanguinia / Dragonninjaakira. I haven't heard back from him at all, does somebody have his email address? I'll PM him again and in case I don't get a reply I'll ask Morkilus to take over or clear the position for other players again. Another alternative would be to keep the Hoburgs out of the game and let LoloMo play Sanguinia, if he agrees and you're really that much concerned about them.

[LoloMo]

Yep, I can switch to Sanguinia if Dragonninjaakira doesn't play

[llamabeast]

I PMed dragonninjaakira's address to lch (hope you don't mind, DNA).

[HoneyBadger]

I'd really like to see the hoburgs make it into the game, even though they're supposed to be all-mighty. They don't have late-game goodness, and they're even shorter than my dwarves, so how bad could they be?

[lch]

I can sympathize with the argument that playing against Heim-like nations can be frustrating. So if Dragonninjaakira doesn't reply to my PMs and email by tomorrow, LoloMo can play Sanguinia. LoloMo, please send me a pretender for Sanguinia when you have some time to do that.

[Morkilus]

Need a player yet?