Crystal Shield

[lch]

The question was whether the Crystal Shield works with Master/slave matrices and the answer is no, it doesn't. All other spells that have AoE: Caster work with communions, how ever the communion might have come together at all.

[thejeff]

But I thought Crystal Shield actually cast the effect.
That's why I suggested the communion.

The Robe, grants the effect outside of battle so I wouldn't expect it.

It was observed first with the charge body effect of copper plate.

If the shield actually casts power of the spheres it should affect the slaves. If we actually understand what's happening.

Maybe there's some ordering coming into play here? The spells are cast at the beginning of the battle. If the Matrices cast communion spells, maybe those get cast before the charge body, but after PotS?
It could be dependent on commander order, too.

[Edi]

You need a Crystal Matrix and you need the Crystal Shield. They cannot be worn by the same person, because the shield is equipped before the matrix and thus casts its spell first, unaffected by communion. So you need to have the shield on someone who comes AFTER the matrix bearer in the battle order. And that someone MUST be a theurg communicant. That MIGHT make it work, but there are no guarantees.

I haven't tested it, but those are the predictions generated based on the observed behavior of spells and commanders.

[thejeff]

Spells cast by slaves affect the whole communion?


And shield is equipped before matrix therefore it comes first can't be how it's determined. Copper plate is equipped before matrix and the charge body from that does work.

[Edi]

Well, in that case you need to experiment more and shows my prediction to be somewhat wrong. It hingeson the order of effects, does communion come first, or Power of the Spheres?

[thejeff]

I ran some tests with this (and a few other communion things)

Spells cast by slaves do not affect the whole communion, so having a communicant carry the Shield does not work.

Assuming the use of Crystal Matrix and Slave Matrices.
The Crystal Shield does boost the path of Slaves, at least those who act before the master.
I'm not sure what Ich saw, but I definitely saw the boost. Maybe his master acted before the slaves?

And in reference to a suggestion in another communion thread, slaves paths may be boosted for fatigue purposes, but not for spells they cast themselves.

So does any of this qualify as a bug? I like slaves being able to act if no Masters are casting, but being able to cast if they act first seems abusive. It certainly isn't the intended behavior.

[lch]

thejeff said:
Assuming the use of Crystal Matrix and Slave Matrices.
The Crystal Shield does boost the path of Slaves, at least those who act before the master.
I'm not sure what Ich saw, but I definitely saw the boost. Maybe his master acted before the slaves?

Then that does not depends on battlefield placement like in actual combat, I tried out every relevant combination. Maybe it depends on the unit ID's, the one with the lowest unit ID (i.e. the sooner the unit was created) acts first?

[Edi]

It's probably tied to the unit ID. A lot of things are.

[thejeff]

Wait a second. Are you saying actual battlefield placement? Where on the map you put the mage?
It's certainly not dependent on that. As far as I know nothing is.
Order of action on the battlefield seems to correlate to the order they're listed elsewhere (F1 screen, Army setup, province display). This is also the order ritual spells are cast.
It may be unit number, but it's not strictly the oldest units first. Are unit numbers reused? That might be it.

[Edi]

Unit ID determines the order they are listed in off the battlefield in commander or troop screens, and they act in combat in that same order.

Unit ID numbers are reused after they run out, not before. The limit is somewhere around 150k or 200k.