Poll: Is Clam Hording Too Good? - Page 8

thejeff · #71 September 14th, 2007, 08:48 AM

Right, domes. So your clams will be shielded by a dome and this item destroying spell will only be useful against thugs and for armies out of their element.

As a thematic suggestion: What about having gem-producers only work if equipped on a mage with that path? More limiting for some than for others. How much affect that would have I don't really know.

Evil Dave · #72 September 14th, 2007, 12:46 PM

</lurk>

Quote:

thejeff said:
As a thematic suggestion: What about having gem-producers only work if equipped on a mage with that path?

I thought their "intended" purpose was to provide armies w/ a continuous source of gems. When I do that, I usually stick them on scouts moving with my troops.

Your proposal might not be a bad idea if there was some way of distinguishing moving armies from mages safely researching in friendly territory.

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Lord_Bob · #73 September 14th, 2007, 04:25 PM

This can be easily done by giving clams a -research penalty. Right where the Lightless Laterns get a + they get a -. Reflecting time spent caring for and feeding the clam.... or energy drain from the claim.

This gives clams an ongoing expense in term of RP points lost.

Of course, at The End Of Time with L-9's in all schools this cost means nothing... but at The End Of Time balance is a truly strange thing anyway.

Micah · #74 September 14th, 2007, 05:09 PM

indy commanders are really cheap and don't really do much researching, so any research penalty tied to clams is just going to result in a near-negligible nerf (in the form of a 40 gold commander cost and a less-than-3g upkeep, less if you have scouts instead of commanders) and a lot more micro.

And Chris, I believe a 2000 gold combat group can take down an SC in most cases. That's not all that much gold. Or use a 55-gem Troll King's Court + earth boots to kill most 100-gem SCs. Astral and Blood both utterly destroy SCs.

People like SCs because they're easy and mobile. No multi-mage scripting or having to shuttle troops in from different forts to assemble a decent-sized army, no supply issues (including gems for mages, always a pain). They're good investments, and can certainly tear through *unsupported* armies of chaff, but they have plenty of weaknesses to a properly prepared opponent.

Ewierl · #75 September 14th, 2007, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Micah said:
indy commanders are really cheap and don't really do much researching, so any research penalty tied to clams is just going to result in a near-negligible nerf (in the form of a 40 gold commander cost and a less-than-3g upkeep, less if you have scouts instead of commanders) and a lot more micro

Would it be possible, I wonder, to have Clams only function on mages? With that rule, the research penalty would be a reasonable little fix.

I'm playing with Patala right now in SP, and the clamming is utterly ridiculous. A tiny bit of luck in getting water gems, and by a dozen turns in you can pound out a clam every turn.

Xietor · #76 September 14th, 2007, 05:34 PM

How come I can only vote once? It is a Louisiana tradition to vote as many times as you want until the desired poll result is achieved!

Salamander8 · #77 September 14th, 2007, 08:59 PM

EA R'Lyeh has been mentioned as a clam hoarder nation. But this is not available to stock mages without the right set-up. Aboleths and Mind Lords get no chance at nature magic (although Aboleths have a chance for W3 and Mind lords have W3 minimum). Slave Mages do have a shot at 1N but it's one chance of 4 possibilities from their random pick. If they do get 1N from their random pick, they will still need a +1 water item or empowerment to be able to make clams in the stock game. If the Slave Mages get to 3W by random pick, they have to not only be empowered to N1, they have to stay under water or get a booster if on land, to make the clams. The Aboleths and Mind Lords lack hands to use the hammers to reduce the forging cost is another consideration.

You pretender can (and I usually do so) be built to make clams, but at least 4 of the available chases to EA R'Lyeh don't have hands to take advantage of hammers either. Since you also want at least A1 on your pretender as EA R'Lyeh, this should be taken into consideration as well.

The more investment you have to pay to make the clams, the longer it takes them to pay dividends. I do find them quite handy, but tend to use them in moderation.

Aezeal · #78 September 14th, 2007, 09:23 PM

Just make clams unique and give em 25 different names.. or 50.. or whatever.. then you could steal them from eachother with wish etc and there would be a limit to them too.

quantum_mechani · #79 September 14th, 2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Salamander8 said:
Slave Mages do have a shot at 1N but it's one chance of 4 possibilities from their random pick. If they do get 1N from their random pick, they will still need a +1 water item or empowerment to be able to make clams in the stock game.

This is a rather negligible difficulty, barring extreme misfortune in randoms.

Salamander8 · #80 September 14th, 2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

quantum_mechani said:

Quote:

Salamander8 said:
Slave Mages do have a shot at 1N but it's one chance of 4 possibilities from their random pick. If they do get 1N from their random pick, they will still need a +1 water item or empowerment to be able to make clams in the stock game.

This is a rather negligible difficulty, barring extreme misfortune in randoms.

While not exactly difficult it's not negligible either. It's 1 in 4 of a random pick and then you still need to also get +1W on top of that 1N as they only have 2W. And I've had it up to 10 slave mages in a game with zero N before.

And I wanted to place more stress on the fact that you have to pay even more gems upfront to get clammers rather than any actual difficulty.