Dark Knight

[jutetrea]

I think items like re-animating dead with a statue are just a flavor of whatever nation gets that ability. I might summon priestly "goody" statues, they summon nasty dark zombie creating statues. Shrug.

IMO things like bogus's band of merry men are something that can happen to anyone. Capture and atainment of any of the units is a spoil of war, a specific bonus to those with the right paths (or that spend the effort to get into those paths, any nation has at least the potential), blood/nature only? Enslave mind/GoR work? Seduction? Using the associated orders are again a spoil of war, as K.O. said, kind of like new training as a reward. And its not really easy.

Fire mages isn't that powerful, nice if it works, but not more powerful then the right spell. Attack commander is a bit different, there are so many weak mages/ferries sitting in the back that the payoff could be significant. I'm still thinking that payoff should only be significant once, then its just another aspect to deal with like various nasty battle spell capability or a nasty SC/item combo.

Again, IMO - the archer decoy is actually the worst of the bunch as it takes advantage of something the player has the least control over - AI. Yes there are methods of dealing with it (changing orders being the easiest), but it can have significant initial impact as well.

I also find it ironic that some can declaim something as inherently exploitable when so much of the game is exploitable. I think soul drain/master enslave is exploitable - what are you really going to do against it? Darkness? Has a counter..but pretty nasty for a reasonably common enchant. Arrow fend against my archer army? Nothing I can do. Storm against my flyers, etc, etc... there are tons of things that can be considered exploits in specific situations - you can do something I can't counter or that the developers didn't anticipate. That's my definition of an exploit...and I'm assuming there are plenty of definitions. One of the reasons I find the game both fantastic and occasionally frustrating. So many things to do, nasty combos and such... but still enough freedom to TRY to find an answer.

[Xietor]

"Using the associated orders are again a spoil of war, as K.O. said, kind of like new training as a reward. And its not really easy."

Fortunately Ko's opinion trumps all. The issue is settled. Move along citizens.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Well, juterea, I haven't done a thorough survey of reanimation, but here's my experiences with ea ctis and Yomi. I've come to the conclusion that reanimation is tied directly to whether a unit is undead or demon.

Yomi - Demon Priest (human): No
Yomi - Oni General (demon, h0+3) Prophet: Yes
Yomi - Dai Oni (demon, h1): yes
Yomi - Hannya (hannya, h0+3) Prophet: yes
Yomi - Telsestic Animate (astral summon h2): no
Ctis - High Priest: No
Ctis - Undead Lizard Chariot hero: yes
Ctis - Bane Lord (undead) Prophet: Yes.

[quantum_mechani]

That overlooks the nations (like ME Ermor) who get reanimation for all priests.

[Lingchih]

Umm. What is the counter against Darkness. Sorry to get off topic, but I've always wondered, and have had my *** kicked by it a couple of times now.

[quantum_mechani]

Solar brilliance.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Depends upon your enemy and nation. If you've got astral magic, Solar Brilliance will clear it right up for you.

If you've got fire, Purgatory will be the counter you use against Ermor.

If facing Agartha as Ctis or Caelum, Quagmire/Grip of Winter won't counter, but will be quite tough on them. If they're asleep, you're going to hit ALL the time, and nightvision races rarely have exceptional attack/def scores. An extra bit of fatigue may be of some help.

If you're Abysia, and your opponent is using Darkness to make all your spells miss, you'll have to settle for Combustion, Blindness, Conflagration, Rage, Hydrophobia, Incinerate, or other precision one hundred spells.

[jutetrea]

Xietor said:
"Using the associated orders are again a spoil of war, as K.O. said, kind of like new training as a reward. And its not really easy."

Fortunately Ko's opinion trumps all. The issue is settled. Move along citizens.

There you go talking in absolutes again. Its not settled. Unless the functionality is completely removed from the game it is a viable ability. If the game host bans it at the start of a game, no problem. If the players (and/or host) agree to its use, no problem. Any game can have house rules.

For those nations that can have indy priests re-animate, I'd rather have the 5 gems instead of the 50g - usually. For those that can't, it might need a house ruling although I don't have the experience with it to say how powerful it is.

[sum1lost]

Lingchih said:
Umm. What is the counter against Darkness. Sorry to get off topic, but I've always wondered, and have had my *** kicked by it a couple of times now.

*wink*

[Xietor]

1. Use undead or demon troops is one counter to darkness.

2.Script your mages to cast spells that have 100 percent precision-they still hit 100 percent in darkness. drain life, charm, frozen heart etc.

3. Equip your mages with items that cast spells that have 100 percent precision. herald lance, drain life staff.

4. cast battlefield spells like wraithful skies( along with storm warriors), rain of stones etc that can kill off the enemy troops.

5. buy indies with dark vision-shamblers, atlantean militia etc.

6. aoe spells

7. Assassinate mages that are casting darkness-earth attack, mind hunt, manifestation, wings of monkey, vengeance of the dead.

8. burn up his gems by casting ghost riders before the battle.