Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod (and summary file) 1.1

[Endoperez]

Yeah. One of those "not working" test caused the destruction of the militia, not thier armors. 21, 25, 17 dam... It must've added the pretender's strength score in the whole AoE.

[CUnknown]

QM:

Yeah, it's true.. I sort of agree that Hammers are underpriced in the base game, it's not so much the cost that I don't like but the requirement of an Earth-4 caster to make it. Hammers need to be relatively easy to get, or items just get so costly, imo. I feel entitled to cheap items, and if everyone has them, I don't see a balance problem.

As far as the indy commanders, it's again mostly a convenience issue.. but also the fact that indy commanders aren't worth 65 gold. I don't see the reason why people should be forced to pay through the nose for a unit-ferry. Maybe it reduces the number of national commanders seen in the game, but I guess I just don't see that as much of a problem.

You could set the indy commanders at 45 gold, say, and even that is overpriced for what you're getting. You'd be paying more for convenience, and that would make sense. It's just that 65 is too much, it's so much that it would actually change my buying patterns, which I know was your intent. But I don't like that.

[Endoperez]

Hey, if you want it changed you should edit the last chapter. "What you did does exactly what you wanted it to do. I don't like it" isn't a good argument...

[CUnknown]

Hehe, Endoperez. I know... but, I thought that if I didn't recognize it, he would just have said that. "Well, I'm not going to change it, because by your own admission, it works perfectly as I designed it."

I know it's probably not going to be changed, I guess. I don't know what else to say, but "I don't like it."

[Sombre]

I'm going to give a sort of report on early summons which are a bit (or very) underpowered here. I'll slowly fill it in, just posting up what I have so far as an example. Debate welcome, some of what I suggest is quite heavy handed, because I really think some spells need a big boost to be any good.




CONJURATION


LEVEL 1


Summon Sea Dogs - DUAL PATH - 2 / 1 in vanilla, 4 / 1 in CBM.

I think they could still use a boost, maybe something like 10 / 2.




LEVEL 2


Drakes - 1 / 8 in vanilla, which is awful, 1 / 6 in CBM. I know things are complicated slightly by dragon master, but 1 / 5 or 1 / 4 please, if only for the AI's sake. Drakes are almost snakes and we all know snakes in dom3 need some love. If you're going to try and make them a usable spell, might as well go all the way.

Summon Sea Serpent - 1 / 8 in vanilla 1 / 6 in CBM, could do with an extra gore or horn attack, possibly higher fear? Regen? Strength is at 18, needs to be like 22. Could reduce pathcost to W1 - it is the lowest research aquatic summon. Currently even at 6 gems, can't see people using it, which is a shame.

Summon Horned serpents - 4 / 11 in vanilla, 4 / 6 in cbm. Even at that price, they suck. Need a niche, or to be more numerous, like 8 / 10. They could be poor amphibians, or have an added gore attack.

Summon Animals - 20 / 20 vanilla, 20 / 12 CBM. I think cutting the cost to 20 / 10 would still be fine. It's a fun spell and I think nature should get solid summons.

Bind Scorpion Beast - DUAL PATH - 1 / 4 vanilla, 1 / 2 in CBM. I like these guys, but they need to be better as tanks. #selectmonster 524 #prot 18 #weapon 29 #weapon 29 #weapon 423 #mapmove 2 #end --- adds another claw, increases prot, increases map movement. Then they'd be fun.

Summon Wyvern - 1 / 6 vanilla, 1 / 4 CBM. Def to 13, could do with being cheaper. 1 / 2 maybe? That would make them pretty good with dragon master, but if you can get the paths maybe you deserve them to be, non?



LEVEL 3


Summon Amphiptere - DUAL PATH - 1 / 5 vanilla, 1 / 3 in CBM. Currently size 4 and def 9, so clearly needs a def boost to 13 or so. It's a magical flying snake, that's gotta be hard to hit. Could also do with forest survival and maybe regen. Like most summons, I'd personally make this more time efficient by having it cost 2 / 5 or something.

Call Kraken - 1 / 3 vanilla, 1 / 2 CBM. Nice price, but at W3 and aquatic only I figure they should kick a bit of ***. They're def 7, which should be like 11 imo, since underwater I imagine they'd be a handful to hit. Could use + 1 or 2 att, and most importantly I'm certain they should be size 4 rather than 6, to match their graphic and stats.

Revive Wight - 1 / 5 vanilla, 1 / 2 CBM. Cool reduction, but again I'd go for 3 / 6 or something, make 'em a bit more tempting. Not a mass summon, but something that doesn't require huge amounts of D2 mage time.

Summon Sea Lions - DUAL PATH - 15 / 25 vanilla, 15 / 15 CBM. This is N3W1 and aquatic only, so it isn't exactly a common spell. Therefore it would be cool if it was a nice little summon. Could do with def +1 or 2. Could be 15 / 10 and not be overpowered imo.

Pride of Lions - 17 / 25 vanilla, 17 / 10 CBM (also bumped from research 3 to 5). If you were to boost summon animals, I guess it would make sense to boost this a little too. Just to 20 / 10 or something. Again, nature and good summons would seem to make sense.




LEVEL 4


Spirits of the Wood - 5 / 8 vanilla, 5 / 5 CBM. I tried these out and couldn't figure how to get anything from them, which is a shame because they're a nice concept. 10 / 6 or 8 would be far more tempting.


Summon Bog Beast - DUAL PATH - 3 / 5 vanilla, 3 / 3 CBM. Now I know I'm a bit biased when it comes to Bog Beasts, but for 2N2W and that price, who is going to make 'em other than me? Suggest: Def to 10 rather than 9, Venemous bite they use should be the strong poison, not weak poison version and the summoning should be 10 / 8 or something. If you can get 17 lions in one summon, why not more bog beasts?


Summon Kithaironic Lion - DUAL PATH - 1 / 6 vanilla, 1 / 3 CBM. Nice concept unit here, but only one per casting is a bit of a crippler. He's N3 E1, which isn't that common. Maybe make it 3 / 8? He has prot 18, could have prot 20 to be even more remarkable.



LEVEL 5


Contact Draconians - 16 / 45 vanilla, unchanged CBM. I can sort of understand why this wasn't altered. It's because the leader can spawn more dracs, so you're paying for him. Dracs look like ok flying meatshields, but honestly even at that they kinda suck. 45 air gems at a highish research level for 16 flying turkey troops? They're even cold blooded. This spell is supposed to 'compete' with the Court summons, right? But it doesn't. I'm not sure what to suggest - possibly make the drac leader a mage with A2? Boost the dracs themselves somehow to make them less awful troops?

Naiad Warriors - DUAL PATH - 15 / 30 Vanilla, unchanged CBM. They're cool units and I don't think they're too overcosted, but with the dual path they could perhaps be more tempting. 15 / 25 I reckon.



LEVEL 6


Contact Sea Troll - 1 / 1 vanilla, unchanged CBM. Research level was dropped down though. Only change is they should use claw instead of fist.


LEVEL 7


Summon Asp Turtle - 1 / 15 vanilla, unchanged CBM. Nice summon, but is totally aquatic and quite high research level. Would see more use for 1 / 12 I reckon.







BLOOD


LEVEL 1


Bind Spine Devil - 1 / 3 vanilla, unchanged CBM. The reason I can't see anyone using these is they require B2 magetime. If they were 6 / 15 that could be pretty cool.

Bind Bone Fiends - DUAL PATH - 3 / 3 vanilla, 3 / 2 CBM. I think QM said he was changing it to 13 / 3 or something in the next CBM version. Considering the spell is B1D1 they really are abysmal value in vanilla, so a large boost like that would really be appreciated. No other way they'll ever get built.


LEVEL 2


Bind Fiend - 1 / 5 vanilla, unchanged CBM. I think they're a bit overpriced and of course hard to mass. Straight blood nations could do with having solid earlyish summons, so I'd suggest 3 / 14 or something similar.


LEVEL 3


Bind Devil - DUAL PATH - 1 / 7 vanilla, 1 / 6 CBM. Bit pricey, similar to the fiend of darkness I'd say go for 3 / 17 or so.

Bind Frost Fiend - DUAL PATH - 1 / 6 vanilla, 1 / 5 CBM. Same deal as the two above, could do with being 3 / 14.


LEVEL 4


Bind Serpent Fiend - 1 / 5 vanilla, 1 / 3 CBM. These only require 1B which makes them easier to mass. I suggest 2 / 5 which would make them a sweeter deal.

Bind Storm Demon - DUAL PATH - 1 / 7 vanilla, unchanged CBM. If you change the other demonic summons, might be worth making these 2 / 13.

Bind Demon Knight - DUAL PATH - 1 / 5 vanilla, unchanged CBM. Again, could be 3 / 14 or something.


LEVEL 5


Awaken Dark Vines - DUAL PATH - 2 / 12 vanilla, unchanged CBM. Could be slightly cheaper and better for massing, like 4 / 16 or 18.


LEVEL 6


Ritual of Five Gates - 5 / 28 vanilla, unchanged CBM. Considering this is B5 to cast, fairly high research and the troops don't work well together, it should be cheaper. Like 5 / 20. Not like anyone can mass B5 casters.


LEVEL 9


I think forces of Darkness and the infernal spells would still be good, even with the more effective lower tier summons.





ENCHANTMENT


LEVEL 3


Behemoth - 1 / 10 vanilla, unchanged CBM. Ten death gems for a single undead elephant thing seems a bit much. It's got a nice graphic and really cool sound effect, so I'd like to use them. What about 1 / 6 or 7 or so?


LEVEL 5


Enliven Gargoyle - DUAL PATH - 1 / 10 vanilla, unchanged CBM. I like this summon, but the paths are a bit rare, E3A1. It would be great if you were rewarded for getting this path combo with a very cost effective summon, such as 1 / 6.


LEVEL 6


Ziz - DUAL PATH - 1 / 10 vanilla, 1 / 3 CBM. Thank god these were reduced to 1 / 3 because they suck and have a D3A1 path requirement. I still think they should be like 3 / 8. Def 9 att 9 could be boosted to def 11 att 11.


LEVEL 7


Leviathan - DUAL PATH - 3D1W - 1 / 15 vanilla, 1 / 15 CBM. Seems good, much like the Asp Turtle. The requirement of D3W1 and having to cast it in the sea might justify making it cheaper, like 1 / 12.

[Sombre]

I have updated my "report" and it's pretty complete for the generic summons I considered a bit 'dodgy' or underpowered.


I will probably move on to a report of some national summons next. Tonight, tomorrow, not sure.

[Sombre]

National summons might take a while.


MARVERNI


Sounder of Boars - 20 / 20 vanilla. They are sacred, but are size 3 tramplers and tend to die very quickly. Not that great, but fun. Seeing as this is an early marverni spell, I figure they could do with being quite a bit better, like 20 / 14. The only danger there is possibly replacing the summon animals spell, which is similar. But it might open up some new bless strat, possibly a N9 one.


Great Boar of Carnutes - DUAL PATH - 1 / 7 vanilla. A size 5 sacred commander trampler with 15% fortune telling. It has a weak domsummon of Great Boars and some leadership. It would be cool if it had a standard effect, inspiring all the bare chested nutjobs.


Iron Pigs - 7 / 10 vanilla, 14 / 4 CBM. This is not a national spell, but if cast by Marverni gives Iron Boars not Iron Pigs and these are sacred, have 20 prot and 25 hp and most importantly have morale 13, 15 when blessed. Clearly in CBM this is a /very/ good spell for Marverni.

[mathusalem]

I have a little issue :

"The requested URL /threads/uploads/519284-CB_Complete_1.1.zip was not found on this server.


Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."

[Quitschi]

Will there be a CBM for version 3.10?

[Sombre]

QM has said the next version of CBM will be out relatively soon and of course it will be tailored to 3.10.