Undead/Demon prophets

vfb · #1 August 5th, 2008, 01:05 AM

I think it was K who pointed out that undead Sauromatia priests can reanimate longdead horsemen, and other nations get special souless/longdead.

Who has capital D or 2S income and benefits from making a prophet out of a Black Servant or demon priest? Some nations also need an awake god with death in order to be able to cast Black Servant.

The Prince of Death also gives free longdead, but it looks like they are always unit #194 (unarmored, broad sword).

The list is:

EA
Arco: alchemy, D god, nothing special
Marverni: alchemy, D god, nothing special
Ulm: D god, nothing special
TC: D god, nothing special
Agartha: nothing special
Fomoria: nothing special
Helheim: nothing special
Pan: Needs ND god for Carrion Centaur; gets three manikins instead of one
CTis: lizard longdead with a few extra HP
Kailasa: alchemy, D god, monkey longdead/soulless, great ghouls
Lanka: monkey longdead with more HP
Yomi: turn 2 Oni General prophet
Ermor: nice longdead with tower shields
Nief: gets nice longdead giants
Sauromatia: reanimate longdead horsemen

MA:
Arco: alchemy, D god, nothing special
Ermor: not needed
Pythium: alchemy, D god, nothing special (but undead work well with Hydras)
TC: alchemy, D god, nothing special
Pan: Use Carrion Centaur; gets three manikins instead of one
CTis: lizard longdead with a few extra HP
Bandar: alchemy, D god, monkey longdead/soulless, great ghouls
Ashdod: gets nice longdead Rephaites
Shinuyama: nothing special

LA:
Arco: alchemy, D god, nothing special
Ermor: not needed
Ulm: D god, nothing special
Marignon: alchemy, D god,
TC: nothing special
Agartha: nothing special
Caelum: can make slightly better soulless
CTis: not needed
Pan: not needed
Utgard: nice longdead giants
Gath: alchemy, nothing special
Atlantis: can make cool soulless
Bogarus: alchemy, D god, nothing special

"nothing special" just means the longdead raised by the prophet are regular longdead. They can still be useful if you need to fight a bunch of hydras or an Awe-Fear SC god.

Of the 'nothing specials', here's my list of nations I really won't be doing this with:

Bakemono: Weak priests, and weak starting army. Needs prophet who can preach and help expand. Also it's nice to make Kurofumi your prophet when he shows up, requiring that your current prophet do the honorable thing and jump in front of an elephant. So it's not worth the trouble of making an undead prophet to start.

Fomoria, Helheim: Prophet will be too busy blessing to sit around raising undead.

Pan: Not worth the trouble.

K · #2 August 5th, 2008, 01:28 AM

Double check the versions of Atlantis. Some get undead with coral armor.

Neifleheim also gets giant longdead. Other giant nations may also.

Caelum gets winged longdead. I think they are only size 3 and not really special.

Renojustin · #3 August 5th, 2008, 01:42 AM

Sauromatia doesn't get longdead horsemen... they have 1h living priests. Anyone else could do the same by prophetizing a black servant or other undead summon. Not sure why you would single them out when anyone can do it.

vfb · #4 August 5th, 2008, 01:54 AM

Renojustin, Sauromatia is the only nation besides MA/LA Ermor whose H3 Undead or Demon priests get the 'reanimate longdead horsemen' command. I'm talking about summoning a Black Servant as soon as Conj-1 is researched, and making it my prophet.

K, thanks for the info. I tried Atlantis, and they do get their own special soulless. It's more troublesome to test the soulless than the longdead, of course. I'll give it a shot though. (PS I called Niefelheim 'Nief' because I'm lazy). I didn't check Atlantis except in LA because it's too troublesome for water nations to make a Black Servant.

Edit: For the nations with easy access to undead prophets, I also saw these soulless:

CTis get Soulless lizards.
Nief/Jotun gets giant Soulless warriors
Monkeys get soulless Bandar/Vanara/Markata
LA Atlantis get souless with a Coral Cuirass
LA Caelum get rotted-wing soulless that can't fly

JimMorrison · #5 August 5th, 2008, 02:22 AM

Fomoria doesn't get Longdead Giants? Poo.

vfb · #6 August 5th, 2008, 02:44 AM

Not according to my completely unscientific testing.

JimMorrison · #7 August 5th, 2008, 03:48 AM

Well damn your nonscientific method. Jesus rode a dinosaur, wanna fight?!

How did you test btw? I'd put an hour into that myself, just to see. I really like Fomoria, they have that neat gianty-goodness, without that special Niefelheim feeling that you're exploiting the game completely.

vfb · #8 August 5th, 2008, 04:22 AM

I just tested manually: create a game in each era, all human nations, Death on the pretender just in case. I used easyspell.dm to give all spells to avoid research hassles.

Hit 'End Turn' 5 times, then see who can summon a Black Servant (except Yomi and Lanka, they can make a Demon prophet on turn 2, though Lanka probably doesn't want to because its demons already have H). Summon the Black Servants, alchemise pearls if needed. End Turn. Tell the Black Servants to reanimate. End Turn 5 times, and look at what's in the provinces.

For Soulless, I had to make the armies actually attack a neighbor, moving the prophet in and animating soulless.

Tifone · #9 August 5th, 2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

JimMorrison said:
Well damn your nonscientific method. Jesus rode a dinosaur, wanna fight?!

?

???

P.S. nice list vfb. Tnx for the time you spent doing those tests. I had seen the lizard and giant longdeads but I missed the Caelum ones and others... gonna give a look

K · #10 August 5th, 2008, 04:54 AM

Quote:

vfb said:
For Soulless, I had to make the armies actually attack a neighbor, moving the prophet in and animating soulless.

Heh. I just pillaged my home province and pre-set to Reanimate Soulless.