Mod: New nation : Shangri La, Hidden City of the Secret Masters

[Nounours]

Ok for crossbows, I think it's not unthematic, but for yacks, I keep on thinking that they NEED to eat, it's just that they don't eat a lot : in a starving army, yack will still have to eat, and can suffer from starvation if there is absolutly no food (for example sake, let's say we are in a province with death scale at 3, scarse population, almost no food and a BIG army), so YES they can feed extra people, but they can die from starving because there is no grass to graze on, and even if their riders eat better than their fellow soldiers, they still don't have much to eat.

So, I think I will give 'em supplybonus instead of NNE...

[Sombre]

[quote=Nounours;640262]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

But perhaps a special-crossbowman unit in LA (I was thinking in something like the chinese Chu-Ko-Nu, or repeating crossbow : less powerful than ordinary crossbow, thus less damage, not armor-piercing, but poisoned, as it was often the case historically...)

Be aware that neither shield nor armour protects against missile weapon poison. So you'll be giving them a powerful anti heavy infantry weapon.

[HoneyBadger]

That actually wasn't my suggestion, Sombre, that was from Nounours.

I'm aware of the poison bug-as I'm involved in making African mods, I have to be (Aksum historically didn't use poisoned weapons, so I only gave one to their scout, who's a foreigner, but most African nations seem to have used poison arrows, javelins, even poison swords. The Razor wife's 'Ida' sword, I originally considered making poisoned, since Idas were not only razor sharp, they poisoned them *and* coated them with hot pepper oil, which, as you can imagine, made for a pretty awful wound.).

[Nounours]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Be aware that neither shield nor armour protects against missile weapon poison. So you'll be giving them a powerful anti heavy infantry weapon.

Yes, I know about poison.
But historically, Chu-Ko-Nu was often poisoned because it's not a powerful weapon. It fired small bolts, the range was shorter than normal crossbow, and it lacked power to go through heavy armor. It was not even very accurate. The main advantage was its fire rate (about ten bolts in 15 seconds). So, it was not very useful against well protected troops, safe, of course, if you'd poisoned your bolts.

Some historical details here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

Thus, I think I will make two version of the Chu-Ko-Nu in LA Shangri La :

- normal Chu-Ko-Nu, with damage 9 (no strength added, of course), range 30 (even less than a bow, because I think bolts are too light to go as far as normal ones), Att 0 (less accurate than normal crossbow), ammo 6 (in fact 12 bolts, but you fire 2/round, so you can fire only 6 times), and 2 attacks/round (to represent high fire rate), NO armor-piercing.

- heavy Chu-Ko-Nu, with damage 6 (no strength added), range 25, Att 0, ammo 6, and 2 attacks/round, NO armor-piercing, BUT weak poison.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Nounours

So, it was not very useful against well protected troops, safe, of course, if you'd poisoned your bolts.

Well only if it can penetrate far enough to actually come in contact with the flesh. By giving one weak poison it will penetrate through the heaviest magical plate armour, black steel tower shields etc

I understand it's the best solution you can come up with though.

I'm looking for a way to get around the poison arrow problem via mod commands. I'll let you know.

[HoneyBadger]

I'd try dividing the poison damage and the arrow damage into two separate weapons-the arrow might do 3, 5, 7, whatever damage, which in the case of crossbows would be AP, while the poison weapon might only do 1 or 2 or 3 non-AP damage (depending on the bow used--or if you want to be really slick, the type of ammunition), and then add weak poison to the second weapon, but reduce the Precision for that one, so less poison would actually get through. So you'd have your first arrow calculating hits at say 10 Prec., while the poison element would be flying at 6 Prec, and not doing nearly as much damage, none of which would be AP, but when it *did* hit, it would automatically do Weak Poison.

[Nounours]

In fact, I was planning to mod the poison as a secondary effect (#50, according to the mod manual), so, if I understand it well, units who are not harmed by the bolt will not get poisoned...

On the other hand, I really think that Chu-Ko-Nu should not be armor-piercing, due to the lack of power of lightweight bolts, which are quite uneffective against heavy armor.


BTW, I've finished modding Gangs Senge (Snow Lions) & Klu (water spirits, similar to hindu Nagas), and finished the sprites of Citipatis ("Lord of the cemetery", demons who have the form of dancing skeletons and punish thieves).

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Nounours

In fact, I was planning to mod the poison as a secondary effect (#50, according to the mod manual), so, if I understand it well, units who are not harmed by the bolt will not get poisoned...

No. Like I said before, the poison will ignore shields and armour, regardless of whether the arrow does. So long as the arrow lands on the unit the poison will hit, even if the arrow is parried by a shield.

So an Androphag archer is the perfect counter to Ulmish heavy infantry. Which makes no sense.

[Aezeal]

Sombre is that so? isn't it because the poison in the game now is modded as secondary always effect?

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

Sombre is that so? isn't it because the poison in the game now is modded as secondary always effect?

If I understood the bug correctly, secondary effect is handled as secondary effect always, or at least something pretty close.

Any way, it's impossible to mod poison arrows that aren't affected by the bug. Well, at least no as no one has managed to do it.