Guide: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

[rdonj]

Hopefully that means I succeeded in preventing my post from sounding mean-spirited

[lch]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

I now believe that the biggest problem with forums is the inability of the written word to consistently communicate sarcasm.

That's always a problem. Interspersed smileys can help alleviate it a little.

[Omnirizon]

which is why some languages have a 'sarcasm mark'; most notably the Ethiopian Languages.

[Tifone]

That pretty much kills the usefulness of sarcasm

[llamabeast]

I dunno. In speech, sarcasm is normally very clearly marked by tone of voice.

Although I've noticed that foreigners often can't tell, so maybe the "sarcastic" tone of voice isn't a universal thing, or at least not universally the same.

[JimMorrison]

Not just tone, but inflection. It's a subtlety that you will pick up on pretty well in your first language, but that must be very challenging to grasp in another.

In fact, I can see how verbally, the difference in inflection may sound to a foreigner more as you deliberately trying to be a prick, than you being sarcastic or goofy.

[Kuritza]

Eh... Has anyone, in fact, SEEN markatas kill heavy cavalry?

It certainly seems that its a pure theorycraft; everyone agrees that its a very good idea and it should work, but nobody tries.
Maybe I just have two left arms (with broken fingers), but I cannot make this work even against AI. Ok, I have some indie swordsmen up front, I have some Yakshas spam armor-ruining spells, and my wave of markatas falls upon AI hordes...
Sometimes markatas even win, mostly when they are backed by real troops. But still I always end up with my markatas decimated and scattered across the neighbouring provinces. Doesnt seem to be a good tactics to me.

[rdonj]

I think the markata tactic was not meant to be used for every battle, but rather specifically to counter elite enemy troops. Using them to fight normal armies is probably not a very good use of your gold.

[JimMorrison]

Indeed, they're not a mainline force, just a tool that can be used in specific scenarios to decent effect.

Also, they really come into their own with Body Ethereal and/or Luck. I've had Ethereal markatas pull off some amazing stunts. Again, they won't do it all by themselves, and with the buffs the real point is to make them very hard for conventional troops to kill, while your Astral mages do dirty things.

Always bearing in mind the moral presented by the author of the guide - Bandar Log is not sledgehammer, but a scalpel. There is no one thing you can do that will be grossly effective against most other things, however, there is always something you can do that will be effective against whatever you're facing.

It makes them complicated to play, because unless you anticipate correctly in the first place, or your opponent fails to switch up his own tactics, you will be constantly changing your composition, layout, and scripting to get maximum effect with your forces.

Even against the AI there is some of that, as you will be fighting highly varied forces. So just remember, markatas alone basically suck, very badly. But in some instances they are marvelously cost effective. :P

[Baalz]

Indeed, rdonj makes my point. It's not very cost effective to use markatas against heavy infantry - though you can do so effectively in a pinch. Where this tactic really shines is against the even more expensive elite units which are more likely to be causing you problems. It takes about the same number of markatas to kill a heavy infantry as it does to kill a heavy cavalry, and also to kill a dual blessed Van.

The AI is actually a very bad scenario to use this tactic as it tends to recruit largish, widely varied hoards. This is very effective against swarm type strategies, but is completely unable to handle most thugs. Against human players however, you're far more likely to see very finely tuned squads with smaller numbers of better units.

Dual blessed Vans are kinda a best case scenario to use this sort of tactic, they cost 90 gold so even if they kill you 15:1 you still come out ahead on cost.

Here's a test I just ran. Lets say 40 heavy cavalry are attacking you. Nothing fancy, just a mass of troops set to charge straight forward. That's 1200 gold ignoring the resources (which are considerable). Defending:
120 markata - 600 gold
6 Apsaras - 6 pearls
1 Yaksha scripted to summon earthpower, destruction X4
1 prophet spamming sermon of courage
30 PD ~ 500 gold

I place the markatas flanking the PD, and scripted the cavalry to charge straight forward. Obviously tactics matter, but this is a reasonable proof of concept.

Turn 1 - cavalry charges forward, markata small bows do no real damage, buffs go off.

Turn 2 - destruction lands in the heavy cavarly, markata small bows and sticks and stones pretty much kill every effected unit, not damaging the rest. About 10 cavalry go down, and the rest smack down a chunk of monkeys but not a significant percentage of the hoard. Some of the Apsaras made it to the front line and their awe is keeping several cavalry from attacking at all. Here and there a bandar warrior from the PD does enough damage to hurt a non-destructed cavalry.

Turns 3 & 4 - very similar to turn 2

Turn 5 destruction misses horribly and effects only friendly troops - but of course this doesn't do anything.

Turn 6 cavalry breaks. Sticks and arrows take down a couple of the armorless fleeing guys.

Final tally (ignoring PD deaths) 28 markatas killed, 22 heavy cavalry down. Solid victory for the markatas.

Lets say, as I suggest you use this tactic in an even better situation where Vans are attacking you. Again ignoring resources and holy limitations 1200 gold is 1 Vanherse and a dozen Vans, and we'll give them a water blessing. This is a non-inconsiderable raiding force which many nations would have trouble stopping on a gold for gold basis. Lets see how our markata defense force deployed exactly the same fares. The Vans are set to hold then attack so they can be uniformly blessed.

Because of their much higher morale, the Vans lasted much longer. They killed 47 of the monkeys and 3 of the Apsara. They were however killed to the last man, only their leader escaping. Another solid victory for the monkeys.