Beware of Ashdod

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by cthulhu

Banquet for the Dead is a higher level variant of Dirge for the Dead, but I don't like it as much as the main unit produced has a higher insanity rating, and extra magic paths that aren't particularly useful on an SC.

I think Dirge for the Dead is great. You get a Malik (15% Shattered Soul) who can cast Soul Vortex and either Invulnerability, Fire Shield/Phoenix Pyre, or Personal Luck/Teleport (depending upon which variant you get), as well as Blood Vengeance if you have nothing better to do than research Blood-9. (Non-factor, really, but interesting.) You also get 4 awesome sacred Ditanu with zero insanity, MR 18, ethereality, lots of hit points, good att/def, etc. Both the Malik and the Ditanu are Morale 30, so unlike regular Ahimans/Adonim/She****es they won't rout when faced with Hydras/Ghosts/etc. You get the standard undead strengths/weaknesses, which in this case is really good because Cold/Poison immunity added to Fire resistance covers almost the full spectrum, whereas weaknesses (Dust to Dust vuln) matter less because of high HP + regen of 6+ HP per turn (assuming E10N6).

I can't say enough good things about Soul Vortex. Best spell an SC can have--chaff-killing + reinvig + regen all in one neat little package. You'll need a death booster or a death gem to cast it w/ Malkim.

-Max

[cleveland]

Z - Are you suggesting you'll be joining the new all MA nations game? Surely you're bored after Kingmaker?

[MaxWilson]

Well, the weird thing is that Ashdod can get E10N6 and still have good scales, whereas F8W9B9 Mictlan will be destroying his economy to get that bless. It's still possible that Mictlan would lose that fight, too, on a gcost basis.

E10N6 Ahiman: 0 enc, Prot 22 all over, att 15/13 and def 16 IIRC, regen 6 HP per turn.
F8W9B9 Jaguar Warrior: att 17 or so (?), str 16 (?), about 21 base damage per hit, 1.5 attacks per round.

You'll have 3-6 jags attacking each Ahiman, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ahimans taking 10+ points of damage each turn (with an "average" damage of -1 it's hard to be sure without running the numbers). Ahiman will regenerate 6 HP per turn. Ahiman has to kill IIRC 6 jags to be cost-effective (on a gcost basis--number varies if you're measuring vs. Prod/Holy/cap-only opportunity cost). I think Mictlan would win this fight but I'd like to be sure.

Of course, as you point out, these jags wither under missile fire. Ashdod doesn't even need indy troops, it can produce human slingers at any fort. Or just cast Body Ethereal on the Ahimans at the start of combat, which would undoubtedly be enough to tip the balance in favor of the Ahimans (3+ points of damage per turn vs. 6 regen, still 0 enc).

-Max

[Zeldor]

cleveland:

Is Ashdod free there? To be honest there is not much action going on in Kingmaker. I take good care of my lands and don't let any visitors in

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by Lingchih

Beaten by Ashdod in last team game. No one dared attack them. They slowly but surely took all VP provs needed to win.

Nuff said

Not really slow. Ashdod took its time until it decided to take the world and then it just exploded. It basically took out bless based Jotun in one turn!
(IIRC It had an E9 bless while Jotun had a E9N6 bless.)

Then it just picked whatever VPs it needed to win.

Granted, the game was w/o diplomacy, so trouble makers like myself who always nag ppl to ally against the biggies had to keep their mouth shut, but its true nonetheless that everyone was trembling with fear of attacking Ashdod.

[RonD]

I'd say that the one thing most likely to increase the power of an overpowered nation is "no diplomacy".


Meanwhile, as someone playing against Ashdod currently, I'm all ears for ideas. Has any tried massing banefire archers? Or does their long life span save them from decay?

[WraithLord]

Charm, Enslave mind and/or the likewise blood spell?

Frozen heart spam?

Avoid confrontation and use sneak tactics and spells to ruin his economy?

Find friends?

[MaxWilson]

Okay, I checked and F8W9B9 jags do take out E10N6 Ahimans on a gcost basis. I tried 4 Ahimans vs. 24 jags several times, and the jags won each time with something like 25% casualties. I'm not necessarily suggesting that this would be a good bless to take for Mictlan, but you'd probably get almost as good results out of a F9B8 Smoking Mirror bless and you'd have decent scales to boot. Point being that the Str component of a Blood bless is sometimes quite good even though everybody scoffs at the Death Curse effect.

-Max

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by RonD

I'd say that the one thing most likely to increase the power of an overpowered nation is "no diplomacy".


Meanwhile, as someone playing against Ashdod currently, I'm all ears for ideas. Has any tried massing banefire archers? Or does their long life span save them from decay?

What are you facing? Blessed troops or regular Bashanites/Amorites? Bashanites have slightly less attacking power than a square of human-sized troops, and are somewhat more expensive, so you may be able to just slug it out. If he's using blessed troops (i.e. it's a small map) you'll have to bring in mages. Stellar Cascades/Destruction/Iron Bane are the way to go, depending upon your magic paths. By the way, what nation are you playing?

Banefire archers will be marginally effective, as you guessed, because of the combination of long lifespans and good shield parry. Not that they might not be worth using anyway, if you don't have anything else you need death gems for more. (Because it's always worth having more banefire bows in play. )

-Max

[Kristoffer O]

A death bless is probably quite good vs. any giant nation. Afflictions easily build up to make your blessed giants rather useless.