Carry Capacity for Jeep, Kuebelwagen, etc.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

I have thought it out, Ive never used them in over one hundred PBEM and have had no problems, and its no problem to implement as its a simple OOB change, just make Carrying capacities for tanks one less than the size of that countries infantry squad, and as always happy to do the work for you.

See Chuck here's the problem. You get these "bright ideas" but don't think them through. It's way too easy to run to the forum and start typing.

So lets assume we do institute what I consider one of the most dumbassed ideas you've had yet and then the really smart people ( or "gamey" if you prefer ) load their tanks with scouts , AT and MG units and whatever else is available that fits within that artificially created limit you propose.

And you've accomplished what exactly other than a reason to ask for further restrictions???

See......... here's the thing about choice....any kind of choice. No matter what it is inevitable that SOMEBODY will abuse it and if we attempt to penalize the few that abuse it we actually penalize all the people who don't abuse it as well. Yes, western allied armies tended towards mechanization ( but were NOT "fully motorized" that would imply EVERY infantry unit rode wherever they went and there are many thousands of veterans who would laugh out loud at the suggestion ) more than German or Russian and for the Russians, and later the Germans, tank riding was more necessity than option but the fact remains western allied infantry DID, on occasion, ride tanks into battle, maybe not so much into direct combat as the Russians and later the Germans did but ride on tanks they did and this latest bright idea of yours, designed, solely it seems, to keep your PBEM opponents from doing this, penalizes and restricts something that neither Andy, not I, think needs restricting and you are, in fact, the lone person to ever think the OOB's should be altered to prevent it.

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

Judging by the tone of you and Andies replies to my posts Im pretty sure you guys dont like any of my bright ideas,

Ya think ??

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

unluckily for you this doesnt stop me enjoying your game. As for the playing population clearly gamey players despise me and realism nuts appreciate my input.
Thanks for looking into the casualty aspect of this.
Best Regards Chuck

It's interesting the way you set yourself up as the enemy of "gamey players " and the righteous defender of "realism nuts" but I personally reject both extremes. There will always be conflict between the playabilty and realism factions in wargames and this game, or any game cannot appeal 100% to both at once so we try for the "happy middle" and try to ignore the whiners at the extremes


Don

[thatguy96]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

The distinction is important because of the other two major combatants UK and USA 'infantry riding on tanks' is in reality extremely rare. This is because both these armies are fully motorised. Why ride a tank when there is a truck available.

Not even in the slightest. The US Army and British Army were very far from fully motorized. Most truck elements organic to US Infantry Divisions were taken up with moving supplies and equipment around regardless.

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

Any desant activities must then be on a very ad-hoc basis.

Ad hoc does not equal rare. Just because there wasn't necessarily a specific understanding of when, where, and how, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The 1994 USMC manual on tank operations still has a section specifically on how to seat tank riders and the precautions that should be taken into consideration when doing so. The seating plan is for a full USMC squad.

Some examples:

Picture 1

Picture 2

Picture 3

Picture 4

[PanzerBob]

Good day, all

I don't know if this would make me a Defender Of Chuck!! But I'd like to mention Chuck's posts right or wrong have sure taught me a lot on what goes into behind the code if you will of this game. Whether you realise it or not everytime you guys get into "it" with Chuck I learn more and more. I'm glad to see despite the heated air which you spar in ALL of you still rise to the ocassion, it makes for some interesting threads. I'll admit sometimes I come here for humour whether it is intended or not, that is also served with a lot of good information of all sorts about OUR Game.

Steel Panther uber alles

Bob out

[montieth]

If you're talking about the OC of a company, you don't have a 6 man section that goes everywhere with the Captain. You have a batman and/or a driver in the car and an orderly or a wireless operator. The rest of the section what do command functions will ride in another vehicle, usually one of the company trucks or walk.

Look at the staff tables for a british infantry battalion. You'll find that the OC has a rover (Humber 4x4 or a Jeep or an LRC) and then there's the rest of the Command unit. Usually those chaps would be broken up into various sections to act as they need. There's an HQ AND and the officer.

At least for my first playing around with TO&E's I've added BTN HQs to have appropraite trucks, extra men, some small 'squads' with weapons to account for the armed folks near an HQ (CMPs etc) and made the HQ element a 3 man detachment to account for a wireless operator, a batman and and the OC. A second LARGE HQ unit which WILL fit into a CMP or larger vehicle has been created.

I'm going to at some point, make up stats for a Bedford 3 tonner wireless van and tweak the 15cwt truck to make a smaller wireless van. The larger trucks, were were most of the staff rode when on the move or where they commanded from when things were static.

[montieth]

I do have to add, we're talking about a command element here. They're NOT just passengers. They're doing things. Talking on wireless sets, taking notes, looking at map boards, tallying various figures. You cannot do this when you're crammed on a vehicle in a set with someone else's elbow in your face.

Command sections rode around in a vehicle appropraite to their tasks OR setup a larger command post for better space and working environment.

http://www.mapleleafup.org/vehicles/.../restore3.html
http://www.goldbeach.org.uk/images/qlr.jpg

My thinking is that IF you have an HQ, you should have the appropriate vehicles and material to reflect this function. They're not just 6 guys stuck in a field somewhere in some trees twiddling their thumbs.

[PanzerBob]

Interesting you mention this as I have in the past when modding OOB's I have added an "HQ sect" if you will. Usually with vehicles of a HQ nature, CP, FO's, HQ Def, and the like. I have found them handy, and with the new Arty Routines I may go back and do it again.

Bob out