Quick Questions

[AlanBernardo]

I have two quick questions about gameplay rules, if you will.

First, this oil thing. The victory-condition states that "Control of Singapore, Borneo, Java will add one to each of the reserves, but these additions are reduced by one for each of Formosa, Luzon, Leyte controlled by the Allies."

One month of oil is consumed each turn, and the game starts with Japan at -1. If I get control of Luzon, does the number go to
"0"? Or would the number stay at -1, since the only way to actually get a point of oil, I would have to capture, say, Borneo? And if Leyte becomes a functional Allied base, Japan would then be at -2? Conversely, if the Allies get functional control of Borneo, the number would stay the same.

This seems to be the way this works, since gaining control of Luzon and getting the base functional doesn't change the number at all. It is only when Borneo is captured, etc. the Japan's oil reserves stabalize.

My second question deals with building up bases. I know that sending a convoy into a base that is rebuilding will bring that base to functional (or at least doing it for two turns will do the trick). It also says in the manual, on page 20, that "if the icons are orange, then the base is not functional and must be repaired (by patrolling or convoys)before it can contribute to any victory conditions."

How long does it take to get a base functional when using patrolling only? I've tried to figure this out and it appears that sending only a patrolling TF to rebuild a base doesn't seem to result in any kind of rebuilding of the base (i.e., the red line doesn't advance). And if there is an effect, as the manual states there should be, does it make a difference on the pace of rebuilding if your TF is bigger or includes some of the bigger ships? I seem to recall somewhere in the manual where it said that for rebuiling a base, a single CL would do.

Thanks!


Alan

[GeneralChaos]

1) Japan starts the game with 6 oil suppy. Japan oil usage number at the start is -1. So if no bases(on both sides) are captured during all of war, Japan will lose game/war in 6 months. The oil usage number changes by the capturing and making active of the following bases. A +1 for Japan for each Japanese captured base of Borneo, Java, or Singapore. A -1 for Japan for each Allied liberated base of Leyte, Luzon, or Formosa. Note: Leyte and Luzon start the game Allied, so the -1 takes effect after they fall to the Japanese and then recaptured by the Allies.

So at the end of the turn, the game looks at the status of the 6 oil bases. Then it takes all the 1s and -1s and then adds it to original oil usage number of -1. If the total is positive, it adds it to the suppy number. If the total is negitive, it subtracts it from the supply number. If total is 0, then no change to supply number.

2) I believe you have it right. The more patrolling ships the faster the base grows. Maybe just one CA/CL causes such a small increase that its hard to see on the small thin red status bar?

Thats how I understand the rules.

[GeneralChaos]

After rereading the Oil rules, I might have forgot something. I believe it states that the Allied capture of Formosa, Luzon, and Leyte can only cancel the effect of the Japanese capture of Borneo, Java, and Singapore. So you cannot have more -1s than +1s. So in effect, the Oil usage can never go lower than -1 (the original start value).

So with Luzon and Leyte Allied at the start(and Singapore, Java, and Borneo too), the real oil usage number should be -2. But rule comes into effect and makes it -1 at start.

[AlanBernardo]

Originally Posted by GeneralChaos

After rereading the Oil rules, I might have forgot something. I believe it states that the Allied capture of Formosa, Luzon, and Leyte can only cancel the effect of the Japanese capture of Borneo, Java, and Singapore. So you cannot have more -1s than +1s. So in effect, the Oil usage can never go lower than -1 (the original start value).

So with Luzon and Leyte Allied at the start(and Singapore, Java, and Borneo too), the real oil usage number should be -2. But rule comes into effect and makes it -1 at start.

All I know is that capturing Luzon does nothing to the numbers. The explanation of the oil victory condition in the game is confusing, to say the least.

In the manual, on page 6, it says:

"There are three bases that provide oil for Japan. They are Borneo, Singapore, and Java. Each one will provide one point of oil. Japan consumes one point per month, so by securing all the oil bases, you can increase your oil reserve by two per month."

This is simple enough, but it doesn't mention the three bases that subtract from Japan's supply.

I'll run a test, and see if getting Allied control of Luzon does anything to the numbers.


Alan

[AlanBernardo]

Okay, so after turn one was over, I sent the Allied Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon. A green line showed, so according to the manual the convoy should get to Luzon.

Resolving the turn, Luzon hasn't grown a bit, and there is no message stating that Luzon got any bigger.

I tried a second time with the same results. On the third try I sent the Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon along with some other ships from Singapore.

Luzon didn't seem to grow one bit. For the fourth turn I again sent the Convoy in a TF to Luzon, this time creating another TF with one Light Cruiser.

The CL arrived in Luzon and stayed there. The Convoy had no affect on supplies.

This all doesn't seem right.


Alan

[alejes02]

Luzon is in a "hornet's nest" of Japanese bases. I believe that proximity to Japanese bases affect the rate at which a base can build. I've noticed this same effect in other bases--the further from a Japanese base (particularly a MAJOR Japanese base) the quicker the base builds.

[ScottWAR]

That sounds like something that should have been mentioned in the rulebook.......... or could also be construed as the old developers line "its not a bug its a feature."

[AlanBernardo]

Originally Posted by alejes02

Luzon is in a "hornet's nest" of Japanese bases. I believe that proximity to Japanese bases affect the rate at which a base can build. I've noticed this same effect in other bases--the further from a Japanese base (particularly a MAJOR Japanese base) the quicker the base builds.

I don't know, three Convoy trips without moving a bit in the rebuilding aspect of things? Doesn't sound right. Plus, the Allies have Singapore, a major Allied base, at least in the area. Doesn't this at least neutralize things (Singapore, though farther away from Luzon than Formosa, is actually a bigger base.)?

Later on I'll try some tests with bases closer to the West Coast and away from this "hornet's nest".

Could it possibly be that Luzon is too far from the Convoy at the Allied West Coast base to have any influence? I would say no, since the one CL that I sent from the coast to Luzon arrived and stayed.

I'll stick with the hypothesis that Luzon can never be rebuilt by the Allies, which is either a bug or a design decision. I can't actually run any more Convoy trips to Luzon; the game will end because of Japan's oil situation. I can maybe run one more trip than I've tried so far, I think, but that's it.


Alan

[Herode]

Also, you must notice the Luzon is very far form West Coast. Distance affects effectiveness of TFs, maybe it has the same effect on convoys ? That being said, if you try to supply some closer base than Luzon, convoys are efficient.

Patrolling bases with a small single ship TF also has some effect, although pretty slow. At least I had some results with the Japanese. I've not checked yet for Allies.

As for the oil victory condition : Leyte has to be conquered before Japan is allowed to attack Borneo. Once you control Borneo, you have to repair the base and make it functionnal one full turn before the +1 oil bonus comes. But as long as Allies control Leyte (-1 oil), your -1 overall malus remains. You'll have to capture and repair Borneo or to capture Leyte before your oil supply rate switches to 0. But if my memories are right, if Allies re-capture Leyte, the -1 to bonus applies again even is Leyte is not repaired to be functionnal.

And now, my question.

The rules state that if a population center is bombed (Ceylan, Brisbane, etc.), then the owning player must patrol this center 1-4 month with at least 25% of his navy. Okay. But what happens if he does not patrol or doesn't use enough PV for patrolling ????

[Herode]

[snip]