How do I use ammo trucks?

[Imp]

It means you either go to prefs & change size or load one of the size you want. Now generate a new map, think that will work

[Charles22]

Imp: No that's what I meant, you call only change it in prefs before the mission is given to you. It's possible you would therefore pick the map size to the incorrect mission type therefore. You would have to keep doing that until you randomly got the correct combination.

As far as loading one, what does that involve? IOW, do I have do to do things like pick AI forces and place them (not something I want to do)?

[RERomine]

Charles, I think you are still missing a few points.

I was said the following:

The AI had a combination of 240+ AFVs and half-tracks

I was not saying calling half-tracks armored fighting vehicles, but just saying the total of AFVs and half-tracks was over 240. Looking back at the AAR I did for that battle, there were 179 tanks and armored cars destroyed and over 40 half-tracks destroyed. Additionally, the AI still had over 40 tanks still alive.

Another thing you are missing was my use of AAA in that defend battle. Enemy aircraft weren't expected because visibility was 20. This is directly out of the Game Guide:

Note low visibility (less than 40 hexes or so) means that air strikes are unlikely to be allocated, even if set to a positive number in the preferences screen, as visibility is too low at the airfields for flying that day.

My tracks were parked on the back edge to stay away from artillery and not to stop aircraft in this instance. As you pointed out, they can be deployed farther forward and still be relatively safe from artillery to get more benefit of their AA ability. That would have been a consideration had the visibility been high. The Game Guide says air sorties are unlikely, but not impossible and my units were out of position in this case. The same can be said for my AAA units. Since they weren't expected to be needed in that role, I figured they still could cover flanks for advancing armored cars, tracks and infantry. Once AI aircraft were seen, those that survived the first wave, repositioned to some extend. The AI targeted my AAA units in the first wave, effectively putting half of them out of action.

Originally Posted by Charles22

I'm not worried in the least about what my infantry will suffer, in fact, I can't recall them ever being attacked by the air.

Keep in mind, my infantry are in tracks until they get to their attack position. The tracks are more visible than infantry on the ground and more likely to be attacked.

Originally Posted by Charles22

Interesting about para scouts, but in my case the scouts are so combatively useless that doing so would be more of a novelty than anything

If I'm understanding correctly, you are saying you don't use scouts and if that's the case, all I can say is WOW! As for the panzerfausts not making a difference, in one battle, I covered one wooded flank with 4 scout units. They destroyed 3 Sherman tanks trying to move through those woods. Fighting is not their main role, however. They are great because they can get as close as two hexes from entrenched infantry without being seen. They then carefully back off and I call artillery in. I've even had them slip through minefields and find AI bunkers in the rear without being seen. The last thing I would have wanted to do was find those bunkers when they fired. As it was, I maneuvered against those bunkers and destroyed them with no losses because I knew where they were. These aren't unarmed trucks which as we've discussed that have more negatives than positives. Scouts keep other units alive. Their spotting ability is much better than regular infantry units and I don't fight without them. There are some benefits to units who's main role isn't fighting.

[Mobhack]

Scouts keep other units alive. Their spotting ability is much better than regular infantry units and I don't fight without them. There are some benefits to units who's main role isn't fighting.

Why do people keep coming up with this myth that scout classes have some magical special spotting ability?. They do not.

- Scouts are small, so more difficult to spot, provided you do not shoot or run around at full speed and draw attention to yourself.

- Some formations may give extra starting experience to scout/recce troops over line troops. Experience helps spotting, but in a campaign you will get that by survival. Fighting is not the primary role of recce troops.

- The primary role of your (core) scout teams is flank security in defence and the offence. Establish Observation Points, and observe enemy movements. Infiltrate carefully around his flanks. Both in the offence and the defence, a scout infiltrated into a good rear position in the enemy lines without being known about is priceless. Especially in a PBEM game!. Put range to 1 so they do not draw attention to themselves. If they have a radio, then the "0" element can spot arty fires. Do not deploy anywhere near line troops who will fire and attract incoming mail either. So you only need 2 scout formations in a core really - one for each flank.

Any that will be used as point men probing for defenders, minefields and bunkers ahead of your assaults, or as tripwires in front of your defence, or "security" sections in between your company teams in a night battle - buy those from support points. These are unfortunately semi-expendables, like any sappers you buy to shift the mines.

Place a sniper and/or inf-AT team 4-5 hexes behind these scouts and leave the killing jobs on any enemy detected by the scouts up to him and your arty. Scouts really only should shoot their personal weapons in self defence, or to pick off some depleted routers in the end game perhaps when the enemy force is broken, or if presented with a high enough value target (an 88 section that needs dealing with right then and now, say). A scouts "weapons" are his eyeballs Mk1 and his radio, coupled with being stealthy and sneaky. Scouts generally move at 1-2 hexes, never 3 unless needing to get out of Dodge.


This thread is now way off-topic for its title - if you need to continue, please open a new one in the campaigns sub-forum.


Cheers
Andy

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Why do people keep coming up with this myth that scout classes have some magical special spotting ability?. They do not.

I suppose it's more perception than anything. They don't spot better, but they hide better. Still, people focus more on what they see than what they don't. When you move up on an entrenched squad and spot it you feel it's because you spot better and not that you are hiding better and just got closer than a full sized squad could. Visibly, you can't tell your scout is hiding better.

- The primary role of your (core) scout teams is flank security in defence and the offence. Establish Observation Points, and observe enemy movements. Infiltrate carefully around his flanks. Both in the offence and the defence, a scout infiltrated into a good rear position in the enemy lines without being known about is priceless. Especially in a PBEM game!. Put range to 1 so they do not draw attention to themselves. If they have a radio, then the "0" element can spot arty fires. Do not deploy anywhere near line troops who will fire and attract incoming mail either. So you only need 2 scout formations in a core really - one for each flank.

Based on what I posted earlier, I guess I'm doing it right.

This thread is now way off-topic for its title - if you need to continue, please open a new one in the campaigns sub-forum.

I reckon we digressed a bit and it's time to be done with it.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I've got a better answer for you as to why people think they have better spotting ability.

SPWaW Manual Quote

Recon Special Ability
Some infantry and vehicular units have the Recon special ability. This gives recon infantry a 25%
spotting bonus, while recon vehicles do not suffer the normal 50 percent spotting penalty for
vehicles. This is a bonus given to a formation using the “1” special flag in the Order of Battle
editor.

Many people have played both and often references are made in ladders without specifically stating which product it is referring. The information gets crossed up.

[Charles22]

RERomine:

(P1) Aircraft not expected with 20 visibility. how do you deduce that? Sure, there's less space to shoot them down, but I don't get it. I see your game guide quote, but I still wouldn't take chances. Good to know though, maybe half to a good AA defense, the rest to maybe add to attacks (of course 'unlikely' may mean 49%). I was trying to clarify that I think HT's are technically AFV's anyway, but I don't really think of them as such. They are armored, and they can fight, just not very much is all (at least early GE ones) and their being open-topped very often, makes them definitely not precisely on the level I usually think on an AFV as, but still.

(P2)Woah, so the 'unlikely' came to pass afterall. You got set up.

(P3)Yes, I realize you do, but that was part of my point, that most air attacks aren't worried about unloaded infantry and unless it is level bombers, is unlikely to cause enough damage to make it worth the strike at them if it does. If they have no AP rounds left though, that's a pretty good place to go. I can see too, with FB's that the thing is to shoot them down so they don't pester you as much, even with no AP rounds left, but naturally that is best achieved if you can figure out where they will go. I haven't studied the AP-less FB, as the combat way of doing it is to know how many flights the AI has, and be aware of their loads, and keep track of how many times they have dropped what. Not having access to their roster, I don't think one can tell whether the next attack is the same FB or not, further complicating things. Perhaps if there is only one or two of them this is quite easy?

(P last) No I have scouts. I said they're "combatively" useless, not that they're useless totally. With Gerry anyway, I carry a scout section and an AC section. Scouts become more interesting if they carry some form of satchel charge, as indeed some of the USSR and Finn ones do; later for Germany I guess. Besides, now that you know more clearly my secondary reason for having something in core, they could fit into the category of being there to soak up just time in the core promotions for a later blossoming in hard times. With such a large map, that's not very wise though because their main purpose is to recon. I frequently lose one or two of them, and unlike some of my infantry that I might be a little protective about, since they have currently little to no weaponry, therefore my main purpose with units neglected for the time being (exp gained by combat through the core) without useful weaponry, is to use them more boldly in doing their job, which I if I have any sense, will be for them to fire little or none at all but just very forward. IOW, if a unit has a front line duty of sorts, and has no real combat value, then they're more expendable. But it's hard to really expend them, even if you want to, when you're trying not to fight with them.

As for pnzrfsts being useless for them, I was referring that only to what I would think is their secondary role, attacking rearward guns. We only got on the subject because I entertained your idea of dropping airborne scouts in the rear, otherwise my scouts would probably never be sniffing around back there. BTW, I know you can't cover everywhere with everything, and we usually think of the flanks as not being overrun, so pnzrfst scouts in the role you described could be fine, but I think you would agree that, if you could, you're much better off stopping AFV's in that situation with full squad pnzrfst capable units, not scouts.

No, don't even go the unarmed unit track with me, as obviously they have weapons (they just die far too easily once they're spotted). I'm not too aware of their stealth getting to the rear, and I would question why they would want to get as close as 2 hexes from enemy infantry and then peel back. Can't they see the infantry before then? I would think that moving to that second hex away, and then peeling back, if on the same turn, would have them spotted for all that close movement, LOS still being the same. I seem to have mine spotted far too easily against allegedly somewhat inferior infantry, but they're still not useless in my book nonetheless.

[Charles22]

Hopefully the last OT question from me. If recon scouts get 25% spotting bonus, how does that translate? 25% further out in hexes? 25% as a "chance" to spot, in other words a die would be cast every turn and each turn they would have 25% more chance to spot than typical infantry?

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Charles22

Hopefully the last OT question from me. If recon scouts get 25% spotting bonus, how does that translate? 25% further out in hexes? 25% as a "chance" to spot, in other words a die would be cast every turn and each turn they would have 25% more chance to spot than typical infantry?

That's SPWaW and not WinSPWW2. As such, I doubt it's appropriate to discuss this here.

As for responses to the other items, I am starting a new thread over in the Campaigns Sub Forum as per Andy's request entitled "Operational Discussion".

[Imp]

Sorry last time I am going to say something but please try exploring diffrent things in the game & grasping how they work, you may well find you enjoy the game more for doing so & certainly will become more effective at commanding your units.
I am refering currently to scouts.

You are all for getting your experience up so your troops perform better but you are wasting your scouts who probably 2nd to FOOs are the guys you want to improve for an easy game. At least they are in your core

Scouts will inevitably die as its not the best job going but what is his role.

To observe & sneak around relaying info & to aid this hes a tricky guy to spot.
Most start with a 3% exp bonus so he sees very marginaly better than a standard squad. Sometimes seems more as should be moving cautiously if a threat is likely.
Now what happens when his experience climbs
He gets an extra shot & more chance overal of hitting but thats not very important.
What is important is he develops a knack for knowing where the enemy are & seeing them. Hes also developed his stealth skills a bit more & manages deep recon like RERomine mentioned without biting the dust.
Of course if a choice target comes into view he can use all his skills to close & take it out if need be.
He is in fact a bit of a catch 22 unit in that you want him to survive & become proficent at the job but when he is risking him in woods & the like leading the way becomes hard to resist because he has an edge.

Sorry to be a party pooper but if you take the time to explore the game you will find you missed half of it. For instance you have not even loaded a map, what about the map generator to tailor the map to what you want, combined arms the list goes on & on.
Learning by doing is also far more effective than asking or making assumptions.