How do I use ammo trucks?

[montieth]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I worked up a proper staff table for a Recce Regiment. I even included the Admin troop which was 15cwt and 3 tonner trucks along with a Signals troop which was 3 15cwt trucks and 3 jeeps. I'm only slighty annoyed that I can't find single place motorcylces for the Don Rs :-).

When I realized there were Ammo trucks and crates, the TO&E was modified a second time part way through a game trying to figure out correnct arrangements. This time with the Squadron HQ of 1 Jeep, 1 LRC (Humber Ironsides MK III) 6 15cwt trucks and 5 3 tonners. Some of those are stores, some are ammo. The stores trucks and HQ unit are set up in the rear (town or field under cover) and the 2nd HQ element (the LRC is the OC's rover) stays there. I can take a jeep and lead the 2 or three ammo trucks to go and resupply a Recce Troop which will pull back from the probing and resupply them I think. (I haven't had time to put this to the test)

Suffice to say, on a BIG map, your support elements aren't going to be too far away. You DO need to escort them. Even dispatch riders, when things were dicey with germans still about, got an escort by the Division's Armoured Cars. Once you have contact with the enemy, your armoured cars should be used for rear area security and escorting of your supply columns forwards to resupply points for your units that are on the front lines. If you make the ammo smaller, in the form of ammo cannisters, I would think you can drop them off the bigger trucks, send the infantry's transport back to collection points and get that.

If you're going to be realisitc, you need to account for the need for Beans and Bullets, at least once a day.

[DRG]

It's simple really.... this is not and never was intended to be a game where logistics have anything but a perhiperal use so we are not concerned with "Beans and Bullets" beyond a rudimentary resupply capability and there is absolutly no purpose in the game for "Don Rs " ( or dispatch riders for those who don't know what a "Don R" is ) and. more importatly, neither Andy not I have the least bit of interest in making it so and I really don't belive the vast majority of players would appreciate an expanded logistics role in the game.

That said, MOBHhack is included so players can modiify things to suit they're particular needs and interests so have fun that's why it's there

I can appreciate why your background would lead you to have a greater interet in that area. However, consider that in the game "a BIG map" covers an area only 2.5 x 2 miles with half that being the enemies part of the front so at best a big map may may represent a mile or so from the actual fighting and most people don't use a really big map to fight on nor the maximum number of turns




Don

[montieth]

It's simple really.... this is not and never was intended to be a game where logistics have anything but a perhiperal use so we are not concerned with "Beans and Bullets" beyond a rudimentary resupply capability and there is absolutly no purpose in the game for "Don Rs " ( or dispatch riders for those who don't know what a "Don R" is ) and. more importatly, neither Andy not I have the least bit of interest in making it so and I really don't belive the vast majority of players would appreciate an expanded logistics role in the game.

I'm a realism guy as you probably figured out by now. I will point out, that from an organizational standpoint, a Don-R was an established element down to front like units. From a Recce perspective, the Don R-s would either hang out at Squadron HQ OR they'd trail behind the probing armored cars as the last man in. If things went pear shaped, they'd move back to the rear. Using them for a trailing element allows for them to ALSO know where the armoured cars are when they turn into a harbor at night. From a resilience standpoint, jeeps are in the same durability range as a Don-R is.

However, consider that in the game "a BIG map" covers an area only 2.5 x 2 miles with half that being the enemies part of the front so at best a big map may may represent a mile or so from the actual fighting and most people don't use a really big map to fight on nor the maximum number of turns

50 meters per hex right? 160x200 hexes are the largest maps I've seen. that's 8000 meters by 10,000 meters. That's nearly 5 miles by 6.2 miles.

Mind you, I was not asking for Don-Rs. I was pointing out, that there is a context for vulnerable vehicles in the FEBA doing their normal business and that when you DO have to move such vehicles forwards it should be under the auspices of some sort of escort. That's one of the duties of Armoured cars. Don-Rs would be, for the most part, be entirely abstract in purpose for the game and I realize that. Though, I suppose it would be interesting as a means of maintaining contact for morale purposes between two levels of HQ. But then we'd have to hang out the Royal Signals lamp and establish a Signals Office somewhere. ;-)

[Imp]

Depends very much on the country & indeed individual commanders.
If talking WWII how many Russian Italian Commanders do you think directed from the front to name but 2, even the Germans the good ones but by no means all. One would stay behind in the command post the other forward often with the top guys rotating the roles each day so had first hand experience of the tactical situation so yes you could call your HQ a 2 man unit but he is supposed to represent the chain of command.

Even on the biggest map if your HQ & associated gear is on the map you have seriosly screwed up thats why they had transport to get back to it.

You could indeed depict a raid or break through to your HQ if made some units. Most people would be none combatants so low experience pistols maybe some SMGs or the odd rifle, grenades doubtful though could chuck a wrench. These would be clerks cooks maintenance & the like thrust on the front line.
Unless a combat formation managed to fall back their fate is pretty much assured thats why they are not on the map.
Totaly vital guys without whom the grunts can't survive let alone do the job.

[DRG]

However, consider that in the game "a BIG map" covers an area only 2.5 x 2 miles with half that being the enemies part of the front so at best a big map may may represent a mile or so from the actual fighting and most people don't use a really big map to fight on nor the maximum number of turns

Originally Posted by montieth

50 meters per hex right? 160x200 hexes are the largest maps I've seen. that's 8000 meters by 10,000 meters. That's nearly 5 miles by 6.2 miles.

This is what happens when I rush an answer.

IDK what I was thinking when I quoted those numbers but I should have checked what I wrote . 4.9 X 6.2 miles would be the actual area on the map if you use 50 metres as the standard. Use 50 yards as the standard and it's 4.5 X 5.6 miles. Either way it's more than what I quoted.

There are no plans at all to allow vehicles to be towed or unstuck or repaired during a game. All that is assumed to be handled after the battle.

Don

[Charles22]

Just an observation guys. I can get sidetracked from a thread's subject matter all too easily myself, and most of the time I don't mind sidetracking occuring because of that, but I do find it rather ironic that RERomine took up the suggestion to start another thread to handle that sidetrack, and yet much, if not all of this last page has anything to do with ammo trucks. It's fine by me, as I hate starting new threads anway, but I thought y'all might find that at least amusing. I understand how the sidetrack I was involved in was much lengthier but the same thing appears to be going on here, just in another direction.

Did we corrupt you guys that much?

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Charles22

Just an observation guys. I can get sidetracked from a thread's subject matter all too easily myself, and most of the time I don't mind sidetracking occuring because of that, but I do find it rather ironic that RERomine took up the suggestion to start another thread to handle that sidetrack, and yet much, if not all of this last page has anything to do with ammo trucks. It's fine by me, as I hate starting new threads anway, but I thought y'all might find that at least amusing. I understand how the sidetrack I was involved in was much lengthier but the same thing appears to be going on here, just in another direction.

Did we corrupt you guys that much?

Yes. it's getting a bit boring.

If people cannot keep the thread to the topic of ammo truck use, then I think we will have to lock it.

Andy

[Charles22]

Well how's about getting back on track ammo truck-wise then?

I post the following as a point of consideration for campaigners against the AI, how scripted campaigns would work in this regard, I do not know.

It occurs to me that the AI doesn't use ammo trucks (or buy them), and therefore that usually is giving the player an unfair advantage, just like airdropping when we know the AI cannot do the same thing. There are limits to this needless to say, that we should never do anything because the AI does them not, but the question should always be on our minds to police ourselves and see if we aren't giving ourselves a large advantage, and then, perhaps, complain how the AI is terribly lacking, when we have a significant part in the blame.

As for me, I have been using ammo trucks with my forces, but it's to somewhat shore up a disadvanatge I often suffer from the AI, so it's not a great advantage by any means. And that is I use the one of the two ammo trucks I have, primarily to feed the four IG's in core. That and a core 100mm btry are usually all the artillery I have, so you can see how giving the IG's more ammo isn't too bad to somewhat match the AI having much more artillery than I do. On rare occasions, usually after the battle is already half way through, I may have a need for that 2nd ammo truck to add ammo to some of the units who had really lost a lot of ammo. Yes, that is an advantage over the AI. Not a significant advantage for the most part, particularly since it's so late in the fight they're used, and because it is only one truck for that, so the re-supply amount isn't terribly great.

If I am correct, the AI wouldn't use ammo trucks well anyway. Probably do lame things like march with the advance and start feeding front line AFV's. OTOH, getting units that are depleted to go to some safe zone to meet it would probably take a programming miracle this game would not have attempted.

Just something to consider in your gaming.

[m113apc]

The use of ammo trucks is a matter of taste.
I use them, not many but I have some, and they are a part of the strategy.

The advantage I get in having these vehicles, I make up to the AI in numbers & strength.
So the AI gets to buy more stuff than me. And often, the AI has masses of arty of all kind, onboard and off board, pounding away on my forces.

I would really love to see those enemy ammo trucks driving away in the middle of an enemy attack or advance. I guess many in here have seen the results of an ammo dump going of, with secondary explosions. I have lost a few because of that.

When I think of it.
Have anyone tried, or thought about using them as IED.
Just think about it. You are expecting an enemy advance through a dense forest, or something similar, where you can place your ammo dump or vehicle.
You place it so the enemies don’t see it before its one hex away; my guess is that the AI will blast away on that unit. That would do some damage on the enemy, wouldn’t it?

[Imp]

Ages ago I had a real tough battle for both sides, he had managed to reload his TOS-1s But I was after them & he was having to use them in direct fire mode vs my tanks. There were lots of little clumps of close cover & on his turn 3 ammo trucks charged my armour. Stopped 2 at a couple of hexes which if I remember both blew up the third got right up to a tank but luckily did not go bang when it died.
It was a totaly crazy battle you would load the game & see a tank company had vanished before even hitting the replay button.