Madness - 24 players, MA+LA, CBM 1.4 (running)

[archaeolept]

i think your analysis is faulty. you can't compare getting dominion deaths in test games against the AI and against human opponents. the AI is stupid, and might not preach, and often has horrendous dominion scores - how did you determine the AI had dom 7?

also, as a minor note, the second wound was chest wound, not crippled, which is very minor for a zero enc pretender.


anyways, I personally have no problems w/ you staling out - my income is currently about 10% that of the leaders'

fight on though if you wish - i'm of course game.

edit: MA Mictlan is proud to point out that they doubled the size of their empire last turn! who else amongst you can say the same!11

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

...Although my opponent has expressed a preference that I just resign...

I'm sure it would break his heart to have the valley all to himself by turn 7.

[archaeolept]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

I'm sure it would break his heart to have the valley all to himself by turn 7.

wait, excuse me, I missed that part.

I said that I would prefer that chrisp continue to fight. My reference to resigning was in response to chrisp's pm upon killing my patrolling army and besieging my cap on turn 3: he asked me to resign, as he would also be getting a sieging army there in 2 turns (which was a lie, and funnily enough, if he had actually tried that he would have had a territory for his god to retreat to .

Here's from my own PM after chris announces he's going to quit:

you really shouldn't sub it out... those scales work if you get a quick kill, but otherwise will be horrendous. either fight it out (the best option), or if you can't bear you can follow your own suggestion and resign

I was just arguing against scamming some poor noob into taking over an awful position w/ LA ermorian scales and a dead 800 pt pretender, one unlikely to come back for a fair while, given jotun's priests...

As such, ChrisP's claim that I expressed a preference that he resign is a bald-faced lie. It was he, after jumping me and when I had a total of 11 troops left in the whole game, and no mages, tried to get me to resign, so that he would have a better chance... I'm happy to quote chris's own pms to me if he wishes.

Also, how the fsck do i get the whole valley to myself by turn 7 when I have 2 territories now, Jim? I have 2 territories, 20 troops, and an income this turn of a 100 gold - and somehow this translates into me having the whole valley? go f yourself.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by archaeolept

Also, how the fsck do i get the whole valley to myself by turn 7 when I have 2 territories now, Jim? I have 2 territories, 20 troops, and an income this turn of a 100 gold - and somehow this translates into me having the whole valley? go f yourself.

Excuse me?

Anyway, you are bounded by large indie garrisons. My point was that no matter how dire your situation may be atm, since most people are either already in, or about to start a painful early war - in about a year you would likely be one of the strongest nations in the game.

And I always thought you were nice.

[archaeolept]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Excuse me?

Anyway, you are bounded by large indie garrisons. My point was that no matter how dire your situation may be atm, since most people are either already in, or about to start a painful early war - in about a year you would likely be one of the strongest nations in the game.

And I always thought you were nice.

I don't like having lies told about me. And, no, I'm not nice. What ever gave you that impression?

at least i'm not a retard

I have 2 territories. even a moron should realize that's not a whole valley. As to wars, i've suffered more loss than anyone else in the game so far, and yet I am emerging victorious due to a successful SC kill. That's how it works. You can whah whah all you want; I have little doubt that your puny and poorly managed nation will have it's come-uppance soon enough

edit: also, ChrisP's dracolich strategy wasn't necessarily a bad one. It had a very good chance of working, though his analysis of dom kill likelyhood was well off.

[chrispedersen]

Damn...

A few points arch might be right that it was a chest wound - I don't have the turn result from turn 2, yet overall what I said was roughly accurate. The combat results (crippled chest wound) in the first few hits was fairly unlucky (especially against pd chaff). And I do believe I got a NHW .. but if it was later..mea culpa.

Second.. I would never *scam out* the position. I never have. I would tell (whomever expressed interest) the actual facts.

Third, As I had already said to you I wasn't continueing if I lost, I really think my wording actually reflected the available options. However, arch if you would rather I said 'my opponent has expressed a preference that I resign rather than sub the position out' I accept that.

Likewise, I did say I was sending a force to get there in two turns. That was the plan. Casualties made it not work. I don't think its appropriate to call that a lie either. I'm a pretender, what I project to happen doesn't necessarily come true.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Regarding the strategy, I simulated it many many times, both versus myself, and against AI's.

I wasn't saying that the average AI Dom was a 7. I was saying that I expected good results against players, as the average bless in MP seems to be around a 7. Plugging that into the formulas for dominion spread, and empirical evidence suggested reasonable prospects of success.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I really do not want to ignite a fire storm. Nor do I want to impugn arch in any fashion... he has been the model of good sportsmanship.

Hell, I can only hope if someone dropped a dragon on me on turn two, that I'd respond as graciously. Again, it was only because I was getting a lot of questions (and some quite unkind remarks) that I wanted to explain a little bit about the strategy, and why dropping was a reasonable course of action.

Best to all

By the way.. I *am* having a problem with the server. I have tried on multiple occassions now to submit a turn, and it continues to reject the turn saying wrong turn number. The last time, for turn 7. I have restarted the turn from scratch, deleted the .2h file.. and still no luck.

[archaeolept]

my opponent has expressed a preference that I resign rather than sub the position out' I accept that.

My preference, clearly stated in my PM that I quoted, was that you continue fighting, but that resigning was better than finding some poor schlub to take over a position even you don't want.

Likewise, I did say I was sending a force to get there in two turns. That was the plan. Casualties made it not work. I don't think its appropriate to call that a lie either. I'm a pretender, what I project to happen doesn't necessarily come true.

fair enough. I have no idea what was happening w/ your expansion force, though it seemed to have been able to gain a territory/turn.

I would guess half the nations in this game have an awake SC and a dom of 9 or so. Very few will have a dom of 7 or less; even those could probably negate dom kill by preaching, unless you managed to kill their prophet.

edit: delete the 2h and the trn file, have the turn file resent, and try again.

[chrispedersen]

In terms of the viability of the strategy as a whole.. I kept the score tables from turn one.. (not that it would have mattered I was pretty much committed with this build).

8 nations started with awake pretenders. The total dominion score was 1100+, dividing by the players yielded an average dominion of 46. My dominion score was 69 (with a 10 dominion)

So the average dominion was roughly 2/3 of mine, rounding up.. 7.

[DonCorazon]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

I think most people would agree the position is irretreviably broken.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Substitute wanted for Madness.
Early part of the game. You have 6 territories: Your nearest neighbor has 1. You have leads in research, dominion, army size.

You are playing Jotunheim. Are you giant enough?

Classic.

[KissBlade]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

random bs

Here is the problem on how you handled your game.

You went into the game with an all or nothing strat in hopes of blind luck looking in your favor rather than actual strategy. I believe that you fully intended on quitting/subbing/staling if anything even went wrong with your start. I would not have minded this as much if not for a few factors.

After you got lucky enough to bump into a nation that didn't take a SC pretender god, you tried to get him to flat out resign to you to give you an undeserved leg up in the game. "It was he, after jumping me and when I had a total of 11 troops left in the whole game, and no mages, tried to get me to resign, so that he would have a better chance..."

This was annoying enough.

Second, if you truly decided your game is over (hardly since Archae is in an awful spot as well) then saying, "good game" and getting the last few turns over with would've been proper form. Heck, even doing some half assed turns or worse, staling is better form than /lying/ about your position to get a sub.

Also I don't believe a word you said about you couldn't expand due to losses. Your army graph never dipped and you had constant province growth.

As for your "test games" and claim that "the manual said it would work!" I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head.

As I said, I refuse to join another game that you're playing. Laters.