Tip: Ba'al and Unrest

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Redeyes

Then try Ashdod!
They were probably just as good to start with and they haven't been changed yet, and they don't have nearly as harsh competition.

No! You mustn't touch Ashdod, it will permanently warp your sense of nation balance. To quote Cleveland, "DO NOT SEEK... THE TREASURE."

-Max

(Well, okay, you can try them out if you want. But don't say nobody warned you.)

[Lingchih]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Huh?

I'll take EA-Niefle, mictlan, Lanka, sauromatia, LA-Mictlan over ashdod any day.

Really Chris? You don't think Ashdod is overpowered. Hmmph. Try fighting them in mp sometime.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Lingchih

Really Chris? You don't think Ashdod is overpowered. Hmmph. Try fighting them in mp sometime.

I have played with them and against them. I will happily take sauromatia against hinnom, gath or ashdod.

Androphag archers are death to giants. Period.

[Lingchih]

Well, Ok, I'll take your word for it. I have never played Sauro.

[Redeyes]

My main gripe with Ashdod is that they have the quickest research, stir with Zamzummites and you don't even need thugs.
Not that it's necessary to focus on one or the other, Ashdod is one of the nations that can do everything (perhaps the only).

[chrispedersen]

Ashdod has nowhere NEAR the quickest research.

Ashdod has the same advantage of EA-Niefle - that the SC's can be used as mages or as researchers.

But they are still 500 gp (sacred) for 9 RP, or 200ns for 6
Compare to, oh say, Bogarus 250 gp for 12. or 160 for 8.

Compare to EA-Arco 400 gp sacred for 9, or 150ns ??? for 5.

Theres a *lot* of nations that are faster than ashdod in research.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, never thought of Ashdod as the research King, although they often end up being so. Mostly thought of them like Nief, early thuggers.

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Ashdod has nowhere NEAR the quickest research.

Have you seen the rephaite sage?
Build anywhere without a lab 6 research for 175 gold; When Ashdod has forests it is the quickest research nation, they get 800g forts in forests.

That plus a native fire (fire has a forge bonus) and death casting for research items with the construction they usually go for early.

Other nations have trouble, comparatively, Arco's mystic needs a lab to be built and is a worse researcher, no nation can rely on cap-only researchers (and Oreiads aren't any better than Ashdod's Talmai Elder)). Bogarus expands slowly and their research usually suffers from it, though they have good potential due to the Master of Names. Shinuyama (who often ends up leading in research for the MA) suffers from having to build both labs and temples and having mostly expensive forts.

Ashdod is a research machine-gun, though of course, that's just spice; they are also giant nation.

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

But they are still 500 gp (sacred) for 9 RP, or 200ns for 6 in research.

This stat-line is CBM, they are more efficient outside it.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Redeyes

Have you seen the rephaite sage?
Build anywhere without a lab 6 research for 175 gold; When Ashdod has forests it is the quickest research nation, they get 800g forts in forests.

That plus a native fire (fire has a forge bonus) and death casting for research items with the construction they usually go for early.

Other nations have trouble, comparatively, Arco's mystic needs a lab to be built and is a worse researcher, no nation can rely on cap-only researchers (and Oreiads aren't any better than Ashdod's Talmai Elder)). Bogarus expands slowly and their research usually suffers from it, though they have good potential due to the Master of Names. Shinuyama (who often ends up leading in research for the MA) suffers from having to build both labs and temples and having mostly expensive forts.

Ashdod is a research machine-gun, though of course, that's just spice; they are also giant nation.

Mystics with 3?'s on average are better researchers, not worse, and arco pays half price for labs while its forts are the same or cheaper. Give a small nod to philosophers as well.

However I grant the point about the skull mentors.

Would be interesting if skull mentors were toned down just a little; they are clearly the preeminent research item.