Don't change Oceania

Rick L · #1 May 27th, 2009, 05:45 PM

A number of people on this forum have asked that upcoming patches give Oceania more power. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as the gurus on the forum, but I have come to enjoy Oceania. In single player mode, it is my favorite nation.

I start with an imprisoned Master Lich with 1A 3W 4E 2S 4D 4N Dominion 7, 3 luck, 1 growth, 1 turmoil. My focus early in the game is on research, as the land nations aren't going to be a threat early on. This is especially true in a game like Dawn of Dominions where you are the only water nation. I buy two triton kings early on and recruit only wave warriors. I lead them with Wave lords and mermages. Other than that, I try to get a lot of cheaper researchers, namely amber clan mages. I recruit any water mercenaries that are on offer, and drive toward the nearest promising land province. In Dawn of Dominions, that would be the opening to the underground world. Once I conquer one, I recruit any mercenaries on offer and build high province defense.

The core of my strategy is stolen from Baalz guide to Helheim, building a massive research capability. I want to make sure I am at construction 4 by the time my pretender breaks free. At that point, I can forge skull mentors with any death gems I have acquired. Since Oceania is weak on land, I put an emphasis on conjuration. If I can get to conjuration 6, I feel I have the game won.

Anyhow, Oceania is a nice way to play, once you have some experience in the game and want more of a challenge.

ano · #2 May 27th, 2009, 05:58 PM

People spoke of MA Oceania, not EA. EA Oceania is underwater powerhouse. And while it is not top notch, it is a solid nation

chrispedersen · #3 May 27th, 2009, 06:38 PM

Besides, Rick - it won't change Oceania unless you download and install the mod. And you can always return to original oceania simply by deactivating the mod.

So, even if you play MP you will have plenty of opportunity I suspect to lobby for or against individual mods.

Micah · #4 May 27th, 2009, 06:40 PM

It's easy to self-impose handicaps to make a game more challenging if that's a desired goal, whereas the MP community would be much better served with a competitive nation. I would very much like to see some love given to Oceania (MA, as noted by Ano, though EA could probably use some help as well, especially since there seems to be a large-scale clam backlash in progress, and for good reason.)

Burnsaber · #5 May 28th, 2009, 03:06 AM

If you are afraid with oceania being changed by JK and KO, don't worry. The cry for Oceania has been going on for a long time. If they were intending to change it, they'd probably done so by now. Even if they change it, you can just choose not to update.

I'm sure your strat works okay in SP, but it's not really MP material. Using your pretender to forge Skull Mentors?

In my opinion, EA Oceania is the most boring nation to play in dom3. Just bless rush your neighbours and clam & fetish - where is the excitment in that? Besides, EA oceania falls like a deck of cards if some land nation just decides to take your land provinces. He can. With minimal effort. You just suck so much on land (only indie level troops to recruit, even on land castles! & weakened mages with poor combat paths).

I also agree with Micah, if you remove clams, Oceania is absolutely nothing. It kinds speaks for the brokeness of clams, how EA Oceania is considered okay just becuse it can clam and take over the seas easily to isolate itself. The nation has path access of W4N2E1A1F1, for christ's sake. How can that be anything else but pathetic?

MA has a lot of other problems going for it, but at least Baalz's transformation strat seems like a exciting one to play.

Poopsi · #6 May 28th, 2009, 04:35 AM

I think that... an important factor on the brokenness of clams is the fact that they make gem spells and sites obsolete beyond the initial gem input. After it reaches a certain size, clamming is self-supported, hence it's broken.

The same applies to the other gem producers, albeit not to the same degree (fever fetish is micromanagement hell, and blood stone requires blood slaves, which ain't alchemizable -but then again, are cheap enough for that not to matter-)

vfb · #7 May 28th, 2009, 04:51 AM

I don't think EA Oceania is pathetic. I agree that clamming is boring. So don't dump all your W gems into clams, use them for more summons. Foul Vapors will sicken the enemy while your trolls rampage, and Sea Kings are great thugs. Forge fish ammies for your Amber Clan mages, give them a water bracelet, and you've got access to all the acid spells. You'll accumulate a ton of E gems underwater, and once you've got a beachhead you can easily pile them into some Mechanical Men or have a Spectre cast Hidden in Sand a couple times.

Burnsaber · #8 May 28th, 2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

I don't think EA Oceania is pathetic. I agree that clamming is boring. So don't dump all your W gems into clams, use them for more summons. Foul Vapors will sicken the enemy while your trolls rampage, and Sea Kings are great thugs. Forge fish ammies for your Amber Clan mages, give them a water bracelet, and you've got access to all the acid spells. You'll accumulate a ton of E gems underwater, and once you've got a beachhead you can easily pile them into some Mechanical Men or have a Spectre cast Hidden in Sand a couple times.

In my experience, you really won't have the gems for all that. Voice of Tiamat drains your early-mid game water gem supply pretty effectively, even if you are not clamming. Forging amulets of the fish isn't that easy too, air gems are nearly impossible to get underwater and forging them also drains your water gems. Getting the Dwarven Hammers for your forging needs isn't an exactly easy task, but you can often trade for them (often completely draining your earth income, since you have a lot of stuff to forge in addition to amulets of the fish).

Court of the Sea King is just a waste of gems. Sea trolls don't go on rampage, they just stand there trying to hit opposing troops and taking damage. If you need troops, your water gems are better spent on bracelet of water + amulet of the fish + robe of the sea for some epic living water spam with a Triton King. (Ice elementals rule!). Foul Vapors + Quaqmire is okay, but isn't really that scary as some posts could make you believe. Besides, enchanment isn't really a research priority for Oceania, you need Construction + Conjuration + Evocation first.

You will never be able to get the kind of battlefield magic a land nation can wield, since all of your serious mages need expensive amulets of the fish just to act while he can just make them walk there. Triton Kings make okay thugs, but not anything to write home about. 45 hp isn't that much and Water isn't exactly the best buffing path (they have encumberance and often need to wear armor to cover their prot 3, so quicken self is out of the picture).

Pathetic might have been a wrong word, but it doesn't look exactly good either. There is no way you can go 1-to-1 against a land nation early-mid game and be able to maintain your beachholds.

vfb · #9 May 28th, 2009, 08:48 AM

Well, I pretty much did what I wrote in MP, but have to admit my only battles were 2-on-1 versus EA Ermor, not the hardest of challenges. And I got the 50% water enchantment discount site and used it to pump out my claymen. But I did win all the land battles I fought, mostly medium-sized and including enemy mages, and I think I captured at least a couple castles. (I had to sub out of the game because of travel).

I site searched manually with H, W2N2, W4E initially to get good early gem income, and cast VoT mostly in deep water. I also killed Atlantis and R'lyeh, so I had their income and the income from the provinces they had searched.

You're right that Sea Trolls don't do a whole lot of rampaging. (Actually, Quickened Sea Trolls with Weapons of Sharpness really do rampage. That's a bit later on in the game though). But I think they are a pretty resilient meat shield for your mages to hide behind and either spam poison (with Foul Vapors up) or acid, and they give enough cover for the Sea King himself to race around and kill stuff out without getting killed himself. And hey, the King pays back all your gems after 50 turns.

I've got turn 28 of a different underwater MP game saved, and looking at my income, it's: +4F +2A +25W +14E +9S +4D +15N. I think that's pretty typical of the mid-game after defeating 2 other water nations on a full map.

Burnsaber · #10 May 28th, 2009, 10:22 AM

What kind of pretender did you have? I recall that it was sometimes in fashion to go for a bless on KotD's (I'm not really hots on that strat, you need a rainbow to cover your lack of astral & death or your late-game will be non-existent). Gang-banging EA ermor? Clever. That's pretty good way to access land, I have to admit. Do you rememer how the rest of the game went, since I'm kind of looking on ideas what to do with oceania in the late game when the tarts and seraphs start running around. Especially, I'd like to hear about that 0.5 win they have in the victorious nation thread, if this is it.

But yeah, I kinda forgot about the "Knight of the Deep"-vantage, they're pretty good for owning other underwater nations. It also helps that you have recruitable nature mages for free castles (I usually pop my second castle before turn 10, for free!) for overwhelming early game advantage. I usually go for E4N4 bless for KotD's, they don't need anything better (especially not if you pair them with some numbness spam from ice pebble staffs).

But, mjeh. They might not be the weakest nation, but I'm still not liking the it. This whole "uber underwater, suck above" theme is not exactly fair for EA Atlantis or EA R'lyeh (actually, R'lyeh has a shot against you, if he manages to reach critical mass in mind blasters orluck out with a N mermage for a kelp fortress). I also find the theme of the whole nation kinda dull. It has this 'little mermaid' feel that I simply cannot shake away. Perhaps it's just not my cup of tea.