Mg 81

[RecruitMonty]

Accuracy of 16 eh... seems like a good idea. Increasing the HEK is also a pretty good idea. Thanks.

I wouldn't like to toy with the already existing range restrictions too much. If I do it with my Germans then I'll have to do it for everyone else and the data available seems to often contradict itself. I am also, at present, only interested in the light machine gun configuration for the Mg 81.

[chuckfourth]

Hi RecruitMonty
MGs 34 42 15 17 and 81 are all developments of the the origional MG30 of swiss origins and there seems to be very little diference between them. That said the most commonly listed effective range for 34 and 42s is, as you first stated, 24 hexes.
see http://www.wwiiguns.com/display_articles.php?id=9 for example.
So it is probably very acceptable to give the 81 this same effective range or thereabouts. 20 hexes perhaps, due to the shorter barrel and more central bipod arrangement.

If you do look at HMGs later then you might consider this. The standard rifle gets a range of 10 hexes, Sniper rifles get a range of 15 hexes, why, telescopic sight.
If we apply the same reasoning to the HMGs we get,
The standard HMG gets a range of 30 hexes, so the telescopic sighted HMGs -should- get a range of 45 hexes.
What the spcamo thinking is on the topic remains an unknown.
Best Regards Chuck.

[Marek_Tucan]

Why 45? Why not just say 35? Or just FC and RF bonus as the range is already plentiful enough?

[Imp]

Have been following this post & not quite sure what you are after but from what you said & links you posted.
Its going to be similar in game turns probably no noticable diffrence & if you have conflicting data just a fudge anyway.
The game treats all (I thhink) LMGs as range 12 its not the max range but the effective range.
From links has a short barrel so slow round & inacurate giving lower acc & range possibly there is a formula in a recent thread.
Has a high ROF possibly the highest but suffers from breakdowns if used.
So normal sort of kill factor or slightly higher if ignore breakdowns but then they are lugging around lots of ammo so perhaps speed should be 5 for the unit to represent.
If it is virtually identical in game turns cant see why you want though the German OOB is already full & there are already German squads that have weapons with identical capabilities but diffrent names, Panzermine3 & K come to mind

[DRG]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

What the spcamo thinking is on the topic remains an unknown.
Best Regards Chuck.

The ranges in the OOB's now are what we decided years ago is suitable for the game so it should be obvious to all what "spcamo thinking is on the topic " is ( Even though we are no longer "spcamo" )

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan

Why 45? Why not just say 35? Or just FC and RF bonus as the range is already plentiful enough?

Chuck appears to be thinking that since a sniper rifle gets a 50% range bonus then "telescopic sighted HMGs" should get a 50% range bonus over standard HMG.


Don

[RecruitMonty]

OK, based on what you guys have given me I have come up with the following:

ACC: 16
HEK: 11
Range: 12

I intend the weapon to be used as a Squad LMg (nothing else). Since you guys have been such an immense help here could I was wondering if you could take a quick look at this entry on the SIG-710 LMg's as well.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43332

Thanks guys, in advance.

[chuckfourth]

Hi Don
Ive had a bit of a dig around and this site gives a range for the tripod mounted MMG MG3 of 24 hexes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_MG3
Interestingly this range is for the gun on tripod and -without- the telescope.

So it appears in your game that you are only modeling the MG34 and MG42 in the MMG role where -no- telescope is fitted. However With the telescope it is a HMG, in fact with the telescope it is clearly the best HMG of the war.
Now I dont think that anyone is disputing that this telescopic HMG has a range of somewhere between 44 and 60 hexes.

So the question now becomes why is -the- key weapon in the German infantries OOB (Tripod mounted Telescope 34/42) -not- in the game.

The argument that it is an indirect fire weapon and so cant be modelled properly is a nonsense. It has a telescope, the target is in line of sight, it works the same way as a anti tank gun for example. A telescopic sight an elevation wheel and a traverse wheel.

So can we please let the German battalions have there HMG! after all nearly every picture you see of the gun mounted on a tripod has it with the telescope.

Note
The MG3 is close enough to the MG42 to be one.
This site
http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=au
Gives the MG3 an effective range 2200 on the tripod with telescope, this is with the nato 7.62mm round, the more powerful boat tailed 7.92 of the war would have a somewhat greater range.
The Vickers can fire out to 3000 yds in indirect fire mode but this does as far as I can gather appear to be some sort indirect artillery style sighting.
Ill get to your second request shortly RecruitMonty
Best Regards Chuck.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

The argument that it is an indirect fire weapon and so cant be modelled properly is a nonsense.

Show me where on these forums either Andy or I said that Chuck and I won't put you one step closer to being permanently banned.

Don

[chuckfourth]

I didnt say that you or andy provided that argument.

[DRG]

Then why Chuck did you include it in your speel is if we had ? Who else comments on what can be modeled correctly in the game who actually KNOWS what can be accuratly modeled in the game besides Andy or I ?

In fact, lets take it a step further and show me where anyone on this forum has suggested what you said .

Don