Guide LA R'lyeh or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Dreamlands - Page 6

TheDemon · #51 June 24th, 2009, 05:26 AM

In my opinion there's a more optimal strategy.

Take an awake Ghost King with F4 A4 W3 E3 D4 N2 dom 9. Turmoil 3, Sloth 3, Cold 3, Death 3, Luck 3, Magic 0. Exact paths can be whatever really, take out some of the 4s and you can have S3. CBM 1.5 was used. (edit: a non-CBM Ghost King is identical)

Research one turn (thau) or possibly two turns (ench to 1) with your GK, then use him in an attack/search pattern. You can't attack on turn 1, becaues you have to stay away from Ichtyids and Shamblers and you want some friendly dominion out there first. Anything else is fair game, remember to script attack. If you did research buffs, you want Breath of Winter and eventually one prot buff. Call it an SC strategy if you like, but this GK does the exact same work as Squirrellord's sitesearching rainbow.

I haven't experimented greatly with possible recruits on turn 1, but so far it seems to me spending all 400 gold on Crab Hybrids keeps your starting army around for much longer.

I've tried a quick expansion test 3 times, once I had 10 provs by late winter, twice 12, each time I never missed a researcher recruitment or a pretender sitesearch except turn 1. Using this strat you get the sitesearching of a rainbow, you save some dominion cost thanks to starting dom of 2, and you jumpstart your otherwise lethargic expansion better than either of your builds.

vfb · #52 June 24th, 2009, 06:08 AM

Nice idea! I don't think you want S3 on a non-immortal god though, and it's guaranteed on every single starspawn mage, for complete UW S site-searching.

I'd be tempted to go Dom10 for the extra Awe (and also because every map I play on as a UW nation, it's tough to keep dominion up even with dom10), and F2A3W3E4D2N2, plus Magic-1. Think that would work?

chrispedersen · #53 June 24th, 2009, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Yes, you will establish dominion in the province with your god. Two candles. However, the chance of a scale spread (such as luck, magic etc) is actually pretty minimal.

It is *far* more important to conquer territories. If I conquer 10 territories and you conquer 6 - I'm 66% more likely to get more favorable luck events. This far outweighs the effects of dominion or scale.

So again, I'm arguing that producing troops turn one, and having a void lord (reasons outlined above) allows better expansion and better scales (magic+3) - which dwarfs the effect of dominion spread by the pretender.

So, maybe I just don't understand what's going on, but doesn't the luck of the effected province determine whether and how good (or bad) of an event you experience? Ie, spreading your luck scales is at least as important as acquiring provinces. Otherwise why bother with province-specific luck/misfortune ratings?

Ie, if i have 6 territories with average luck/misfortune +2, and you have 10 territories with average luck/misfortune -1, shouldn't I do much better on events than you do?

No. Or rather thats not an accurate depiction of what happens. First, it will more likely be you will have 6 territories with luck 2.5, and I'll have 10 territories with luck 1.8. Over 10 turns you'd have 10 40% chances to increase luck.. or roughly 4 extra luck scales. And of course, over time it would converge to an equilibrium value depending on your dominion, and your neighbors.

In a luck-0 province you get good and bad events. And yes, various scales will unlock different events. For example turmoil(?) unlocks the barbarian attacks events.

We both are going to start with L+3 in our capital. You will have more or less a 40% chance to gain one scale increase in luck more than my build until my lurker awakes, each turn.

A 40% chance of increasing turmoil, sloth, etc.

So, while it is slightly positive for generating a luck event, it is more negative for generating income. Plus, as the luck scale will not propagate much - the strongly good events will only express in the +3 provinces.

Overall, there is a *lot* of scatter due to the nature of random.. But no, overall the number of provinces is going to be much more important than the the two extra candles of dominion per turn.

chrispedersen · #54 June 24th, 2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDemon

In my opinion there's a more optimal strategy.
Using this strat you get the sitesearching of a rainbow, you save some dominion cost thanks to starting dom of 2, and you jumpstart your otherwise lethargic expansion better than either of your builds.

That hasnt been demonstrated, at all. Run some numbers to the end of year 2. Getting 10 territories was not difficult with the build I announced.

Plus, I *like* the ghost king - but its awfully risky. Getting one bad event - such as the atlantean militia event - and you're toast. Likewise very susceptible to enemy action.

vfb · #55 June 24th, 2009, 08:36 AM

I tried the dom10 Ghost King and had a pretty horrible starting setup, the four provinces bordering my capitol had:

1 - 62 Triton Guards/Troopers
2 - 53 Ichtyid Warriors/Ichtyids
3 - ~50 Ichtyid Warriors/Ichtyids
4 - ~50 Tritons/Sea Trolls

But my GK took out #1 without any trouble. Though I lost most of my starting army and freespawn, my 10 crab warriors prevailed with no losses and finished off #2. And I got 400 gold and Cthugul in turn 2, making this SP game pretty irrelevant in terms of testing. Except I'm now a believer in the ability of the GK to solo.

vfb · #56 June 24th, 2009, 10:37 AM

So, after one year, using the GK god, I've got 19 provinces, including one extra fort, where I've built a lab. I can now Haruspex (and soon Tiamat) the oceans to the right of my capitol. I got a chest wound on the GK from Ichtyids, and weakened by a shambler, but my GK isn't needed for expanding now.

It took forever as usual for me to get an S2, but I finally did last month, and now I feel safe venturing into the Void Gate.

Indies were pretty rough, with three big troll provinces, lots of Ichtyids, and pretty big populations in the other indies. I managed to blow up most of my east crab army on some amber clan tritons right at the end of my expansion, and still take the province. Nice, since it was going to be a long walk home.

I researched Enchant-1, Alt-1, Thau-1, Conj, Thau-2 (when I found my fort and decided to build a lab), Conj.

On the turn I was going to get Alt-1, I took a chance and scripted:
(Breath of Winter, Cast a spell, hold *3, attack)

And very nicely the AI cast Barkskin, which was what I had hoped for.

thejeff · #57 June 24th, 2009, 11:00 AM

You don't use the Void Gate at all, until you've got Returning?

It's random of course, but I got some nice stuff out of it in several runs through the first year. Only lost a priest once.
Is the chance of losing a Starspawn priest such a high price to pay?

vfb · #58 June 24th, 2009, 11:26 AM

I had one game where every single turn early on, my Void Gate mage got eaten. Since then I've refused to allow mages in without then having passed an 'S2' qualification exam. I usually get Returning way before I get an S2 mage. It's only Thau-1.

By keeping my Void Gate mages alive, they also build up better summoning skill. I guess I'm missing out on some early summons, but I'd have to sacrifice more early research for a commander to shuffle the summons about, in any case.

chrispedersen · #59 June 24th, 2009, 12:37 PM

VFB, why not Pots + returning even on a 1 s priest?

But usually, I'll just give him 5 body guards, and that will do the trick often enough to be worth the 150 gp until I can get him returning.

Radio_Star · #60 June 24th, 2009, 03:05 PM

If you wanted to pursue a Combat/Rainbow pretender, I'd consider a dom 9 Kraken. Using the GK scales, you can pull 5 paths at 3 and 1 path at 4. You lose slots and (temporarily) amphibious ability, but gain an amazing amount of combat potential. There's absolutely no indie that could possibly faze you and you retain some usefulness later with various buffs (see Baalz's MA Atlantis guide for Kraken nastiness).