Mod: MA al-Nadim - The thousand and one nights 1.01)

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Lurker_at_Threshold

The capital only H3 priest could be named a mufti. If you could individually hijack a nations option for a unique profit, while still keeping them playable, the dwarf smith could be a good option.

I'd imagine that Vizier's would have some combat utility stemming from the weak evocations, particularly fire combined with aim. Although forging additional boosters could be difficult.

If you would want to improve magical diversity you could always a recruitible everywhere magician with a crap shoot of elemental magic (FAWE)or another with minor death, and a chance at an elemental path.

I actually am rethinking if air is so crucial path to have atleast as a major one. Fire sure is, djinns are beings of smokeless fire, and astral feels correct too. Having water, air, earth or most of them as minor picks sounds interesting too though.

Anyway, viziers' problem was that 1F 1A can't do anything. It's 50% chance to get 2F or 2A and to be able to shoot atleast some proper evocations and 25% chance to get 1S for communions. 25% of the viziers would be useless apart from as researchers with their 1A 1F 1E paths. Not too awful though.

One draft for magics would be to make the viziers really versatile mages. For example something like following:

- Grand Vizier, 3F 1S, 200% AWES, 10% AWESF
- Vizier 2F 1S, 110% AWESF
- Mystic 1S (possibly 100% SD instead of 1S)

The 1S on especially vizier allows communions, making it always useful.

The problem just is that this'd produce a huge pile of crappy mages. I would love to use linked paths, 100% chance to have 2 levels of AWESF for grand vizier, but the modding commands for that make the modded units look buggy in recruiting screen.

Second option would be to have the following:

- Grand Vizier as it is
- Vizier as it is
- Mystic with 100% SD
- A scholar with 100% AWEF

But yeah, I don't know. It's pretty hard as I'd like to have plenty of viziers with different magic paths, but most setups lead to too many of them having relatively useless magic paths.

EDIT: Imam will be renamed mullah. That suits better for a H1 priest. Imam might be a seperate H2 priest or the H3 priest.

[Burnsaber]

Evrything I say below is just an suggestion. Feel free to ignore my ramblings should you feel the need for it.

Originally Posted by elmokki

I also have considered the following:
- Some capital only H3 priest
- Mystic (1S, 1H, stealthy, sacred, possibly a spy?)

For the graphics, may I suggest that you just recolor the guys in the Holy War preview pic (under "The Celestial Choir")? Recoloring the white in them to black should probably make them blend nicely with the Imam pic you already got (a'k'a making black the color of the priesthood).

Originally Posted by elmokki

- Some sort of scholar (= researcher) unit might suite quite well. I reckon it's either mystic or scholar though. Could be capital only.

Well, your mages aren't currently very "combatique", perhaps you could give them minor bonus (like ~1) to compensate?

Originally Posted by elmokki

- A camel rider is an intriguing idea, but what purpose does it serve? Worse cavalry with wasteland survival isn't really a good enough niche to be worth it in most cases, and I think most if not all units deserve wasteland survival anyway. The EA version of this nation could have less horses and more camels as a theme of horses being rare though.

Well, if you can't see any justification for a unit (althought I agree that in EA camels would make more sense) it's better to just scrap it. There's no idea on filling the roster with useless units. It's just extra work for no gain.

Originally Posted by elmokki

- I am not happy with the magic paths of the two mages, but it's pretty hard to figure out what'd suit well. Current setup would probably make viziers too useless in combat.

I remember suggesting this some time ago, but it was probably in some other thread. National combat spells. Here are some ideas:

Desert Wind: AoE AP fire fatigue damage.

Djinn combat summon: This is depended upon how prevelavent the Djinns are in the MA, do you still have some as summons?

Trickery of the Djinn: Slightly better "Confusion".

Fury of the Desert: Troops buff that gives fire resistance + haste + (quickness?)

But you probably have better ideas, considering all the research you've done. If you aren't sure what is possible by spell modding, just ask. I happen to have some experience in the subject. If you need something complicated, I'd be more than happy to help you out with the code.

Originally Posted by elmokki

Should the beduins be stealthy by the way? If so, should they have regular leather instead of reinforced leather? I'm a bit in between.

Hmm. Reinforced leather is basically normal leather armor with some metal plates hanging from it. The Beduins could easily trade for those, so even with their lack of forging, it would make sense.

I'd like re-state that everything I say is just a suggestion. I'm just very intrested in this project. You see, I'm a Byzantium addict. It's been a dream of mine to do a new version of Pythium with more Constantinople (Greek fire, Varangian Guards, Icons and sh*t) and less Hydras and overpowered priest mages. With your mod and this hypothetical mod of mine (if you ever finish this, I'll make it thought) we could re-enact the Byzantium wars. Heck, I even might a dip my toe inmap-making and make a map out of some image of Turk + Greece.

[elmokki]

This should have all recruitable units apart from the assassin.

By how it seems to turn out in my head, this nation won't have too much standing power compared to many other nations, but has a relatively good magic diversity, decent raiders, and with djinn-summons and dervishes possibly a meaningful niche for a water bless - though I reckon both djinn and dervishes will die horribly from archers before you start using arrow fend and/or storm.

Next up I'll need to make heroes. I reckon Abdul Alhazred, Ali Baba (along with bandits!) and Sinbad atleast.

Alhazred will be an insane heretic S3D2B2 mage.
Ali Baba will be a bandit leader, nothing too special.
Sinbad will just be a sailing commander with bad event prevention.

EDIT: Alchemist is probably capital only. I think mystics will be sacred.

[Lurker_at_Threshold]

Looks great, I like the new sprites. The alchemists will be a useful tool for site searching/forging and the most likely source for the all important dwarven hammer.

The mystic should probably be sacred given the role that sufi's had in spreading islam in both Asia and Africa, not to mention that they were responsible for founding many a dervish lodge.

As for your physical heroes, are you thinking about giving them the CBM treatment?

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Lurker_at_Threshold

The mystic should probably be sacred given the role that sufi's had in spreading islam in both Asia and Africa, not to mention that they were responsible for founding many a dervish lodge.

Well, I just realized all priests have to be sacred anyway

As for your physical heroes, are you thinking about giving them the CBM treatment?

What would that be? Highly increased stats?

[Lurker_at_Threshold]

What would that be? Highly increased stats?

Slightly increased stats, a minor magical item or two, and a secondary affliction causing attack. Enough to make them thugable in the same sense as a Sleeper, but hardly a super combatant.

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Lurker_at_Threshold

Slightly increased stats, a minor magical item or two, and a secondary affliction causing attack. Enough to make them thugable in the same sense as a Sleeper, but hardly a super combatant.

Sounds fair. Better than having all the cool heroes just work as normal infantry shepherds.

Anyway, I put up all the work so far as a playable nation. Please give feedback on unit stats and prices.

I'll edit the first post too.

EDIT: For the sake of my sanity, the downloadable version will only be up at the first post

[Sombre]

I like the look - simple, clean, fits in with dom3.

I'd love to see camel cavalry. I think there are a few ways you could make them very buildable units - they could be camel archers with prec 11, composite bows and mapmove 3 (good precision because the camel can support a more stable mount for archery). They could have animal awe and thus be elephant counters - perhaps the smell drives away other animals. They could provide supplies to your units. They could have some other fun justification based on camel mythology ;] They could also have especially good riders, who pick the camel because of its status in their culture.

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Sombre

I'd love to see camel cavalry. I think there are a few ways you could make them very buildable units - they could be camel archers with prec 11, composite bows and mapmove 3 (good precision because the camel can support a more stable mount for archery). They could have animal awe and thus be elephant counters - perhaps the smell drives away other animals. They could provide supplies to your units. They could have some other fun justification based on camel mythology ;] They could also have especially good riders, who pick the camel because of its status in their culture.

Sounds like a good idea.

Here's a preliminary sprite. As far as I know the camel is a smaller animal than a horse in real life though, so the camel is far too big.

[llamabeast]

Animal awe would be good on camels. In real life I believe they were effective against horses because of the smell. Unfortunately you can't make them good against cavalry in dom3, but you can at least make them good against elephants (and monkeys).

I also like the idea of the camel rider being elite.

Edit (elmokki posted while I was typing): Very nice camel!

Edit again: I think something funny has happened to the camel rider's legs. They are very small.