A Crazy Idea!

[Snipey]

Presenting: Equatorial Guinea, Royal Cluster****.

(This is loosely based on what might happen. Some of the facts are real.)

Ahhh Equatorial Guinea, the land of oil, of corrupt dictators, foreign mercenaries, the capital of the sex-slave, the African country with the greatest rich-poor divide, a place that has everything a revolutionary can dream of, even the starving masses. Equatorial Guinea is small country, consisting of 2 islands and a mainland region. Overall the country has 450,000 people, 5,000 of whom serve in the armed forces. Equatorial Guinea's main export is oil, accounting for 97% of all exports. Equatorial Guinea's GDP is $20 billion, about $15 billion of which come from exporting oil.

In 2005, Equatorial Guinea hired MPRI to train their military. In addition the French are responsible for training Equatorial Guinea's 600 men strong Gendarme Corps. The army now has 2,800 soldiers, 900 paramilitary, 1,000 MPRI "instructors". The navy has 400 men and 6 patrol boats. An old US patrol boat, a Daphne Class patrol boat, 2 Zhuk patrol boats and 2 Kalkan patrol boats. In addition the air force of Equatorial Guinea has 10 Mi-6 Gunships, 15 Mi-24s, 3 Mi-17Hs and 4 SU-25s. They also have 5 L-39 Albatros and 4 Cessnas, and 15 Pandurs. These things: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-pandur-01873/ The airforce consists of 300 men.

(Now just let me do the Demographics and I'll get to the fun part.) Equatorial Guinea has 7 provinces. The Annabon province has 5,000 men and 17.5 square kilomets in area. Annabon's location enables Equatorial Guinea to claim large deposits of oil, other then that, the island is insignificant. The Annobonese ethnic group predominates on the island. The other island, Bioko, is divided into two provinces, Bioko Norte and Bioke Sur. The island of Bioko has an area of 2,017 square kilometers, and a population of 124,000. Most of the people, 100,000, reside in the capital, Malabo. Other notable cities include Luba, 7,000, and Riaba, 1,000. Most people in Bioko are the Bubi, who look down on the Fang.

The mainland has four major areas, the Litoral, which is a semi-peaceful area with a coastline, the Centro-Sur province, which is stuck in between Litoral and the most restless provinces, the Kie-Ntem Province, whose slogan is "Sex slaves - you want them, we got them!" and the Wele-Nzas Province, home of the country's dictator. The mainland has an area of 26,000 square kilometers, and a population of 321,000. 70,000 of them reside in Bata. Other coastal towns include Mbini, 10,000, Cogo, Acalayong, and Bolondo, roughly 1,000 each. (Bolondo - who comes up with these names.) Also, 5,000 live in Evinagoyang, Acurenam has 3,000 Neifang has 5,000, Nceu and Ayamiken roughly 1,000 apiece. Ebibyin - the city of the flourishing slave trade has roughly 5,000 people. Mongomo, capital of the region where the dictator's power comes from, has roughly 6,000 people.

Anyways, now that the boring stuff is out of the way, let the fun begin. A slave trader, by the name of Ongelukkig (translates to Unlucky in English) captured a Slavic girl in Ukraine and took her to Ebibyin. Too bad Ongelukkig didn't know that the girl was the daughter of a retired Russian SpetzNatz captain, who had a Russian Hacker as a friend. Too bad that Ongelukkig decided to brag about the purchase online. A group of Russia's SpetzNatz and several Marksmen teams, 50 Russians in all, paid Ongelukkig's men a visit, routed them without taking a single casualty, and shot Ongelukkig where it hurts the most. Then they freed all the slaves. (I'll come up with 500 point ORBAT here later.)

This caused great panic in the region. A force of demons, it was rumored, was coming against the corrupt, and a rebellion took place, that spilled into the dictator's home region. The dictator brashly ordered 3,000 infantrymen, 500 paramilitary and 250 MPRI into action. Having had enough, the people revolted. China, seizing on the feelings of the revolution, dispatched several companies via air. Not wanting to have the dictator toppled, the US quickly sent several companies of Marines and Army via air. Ze French sent a company to assist the Gendermes. Slowly, a match of rebels vs. goverment, of China/Russia/others vs. NATO. Not wanting the war to escalate, Medvedev called Obama, and the two agreed to limit the war to Equatorial Guinea, as they send "fact-finding missions" (aka companies of armed men). Seeing no repercussions, some Latin American countries dispatched a few companies, and Equatorial Guinea was soon to become a sparring ground of sorts.

On top of all this happening Equatorial Guinea's neighbors, Gabon and Cameroon decided to intervene as well, against the government. In addition, a secret mercenary group, called the Inglorious Bastards, captured Annabon and stated that the region is seceding. Not wanting to lose its source of oil, the US withheld recognition. Mercenaries rushed to the region. Within 24 hours, Eqautorial Guinea became more militarized then it ever was....

Well I heard some people wanted a factual scenario of NATO vs. non-NATO, here you go. Each country gets an operating base initially. I haven't decided how to plan the rest of it out yet. Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

[Mobhack]

Moved here since this appears to be a campaign or scenario idea?

Andy

[Snipey]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Moved here since this appears to be a campaign or scenario idea?

Andy

Thank you! I didn't know where to post it, but now I know.

[Double_Deuce]

Originally Posted by Snipey

Well I heard some people wanted a factual scenario of NATO vs. non-NATO, here you go. Each country gets an operating base initially. I haven't decided how to plan the rest of it out yet. Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

Well hopefully you have plenty of free time for the next year or so. My experience in running these type of games in the past is they require long term committment and constant player follow-up.

[Snipey]

Originally Posted by Double_Deuce

Well hopefully you have plenty of free time for the next year or so. My experience in running these type of games in the past is they require long term committment and constant player follow-up.

Well I just want to try to figure out how to turn this idea into a game. Like what the Orbats would be, how the sides would act, what will happen, etc. I want other opinions, more input, it's still in the developmental stage!

[Imp]

What forces would represent them, Spain?
I had a similar idea using South Africa the premise being resources are running out & it supplies the majority of the rare stuff. Russia or China decide they want some of these before they are gone & convince an African country it would be a good idea say Angola. The likes of Libya or other North African country is a bit of a stretch due to the distance & think outguns SA quite badly.
So starts as Angola invading South Africa, USMC is dispatched to assist as they want the resources to & it all escalates. SA get USMC air support then must hold a port while Marines land & can now enter the war, Communists become more than advisors capture airfields & come in that way. Steadily heavier equipment becomes available & of course everybody else wants the resources to.
The idea was the forces get steadily better possibly the battles bigger as raids to start with & supplies targets. Ports airbases mines etc plus the normal stuff on the way.
Angola would probably need a bit more than advisors from the start to make it as far as a SA port mind no chance of surprise but from memory SA neigbours would have an even tougher time.
As DD said though finding time to flesh this out & do it is why it got no further, to big a project.
To make even the story line work effectivly you have to think how it relates to MBT as in the battle progresion, next target type of battle etc IMHO. The airfield attack for instance could be a long battle starting with just a group of Special forces & some planes, arty possibly for them to call in. Can you nulify the AAA & ID safe(ish) landing zones before they enter on turn 15 or so?
The Marine landing one time is a key factor breaking through the SA defenders & meeting them as they land would probably be a lot easier than letting them get dry feet & organised.
Just makes them a bit diffrent from a standard battle adding variety, feel free to adapt any of it.

[Double_Deuce]

Would you have an operational map where movement would take place between battles?

How were you planning to set up the sides? Would players get command of specific units? I think this point is a primary cause for player boredom as you end up with the same people playing each other over and over, Pbem after Pbem as their units operate in the same area and are continually make contact. BUT if you take away the players having the feel of operating a specific unit they feel ownership for that also lessens player interest.

Personally, I think with the all ideas floating around out there it might be good to get a group together to work on a single idea and incorporate all the best parts into something that would work long term.

I really like Skirmisher's "grid type map idea" for the operational concept and he seems to be keeping it small so that should help keep it flowing smoother over time.

[Snipey]

Well now that people have expressed interest I can expand

Originally Posted by Imp

What forces would represent them, Spain?
I had a similar idea using South Africa the premise being resources are running out & it supplies the majority of the rare stuff. Russia or China decide they want some of these before they are gone & convince an African country it would be a good idea say Angola. The likes of Libya or other North African country is a bit of a stretch due to the distance & think outguns SA quite badly.
So starts as Angola invading South Africa, USMC is dispatched to assist as they want the resources to & it all escalates. SA get USMC air support then must hold a port while Marines land & can now enter the war, Communists become more than advisors capture airfields & come in that way. Steadily heavier equipment becomes available & of course everybody else wants the resources to.
The idea was the forces get steadily better possibly the battles bigger as raids to start with & supplies targets. Ports airbases mines etc plus the normal stuff on the way.
Angola would probably need a bit more than advisors from the start to make it as far as a SA port mind no chance of surprise but from memory SA neigbours would have an even tougher time.
As DD said though finding time to flesh this out & do it is why it got no further, to big a project.
To make even the story line work effectivly you have to think how it relates to MBT as in the battle progresion, next target type of battle etc IMHO. The airfield attack for instance could be a long battle starting with just a group of Special forces & some planes, arty possibly for them to call in. Can you nulify the AAA & ID safe(ish) landing zones before they enter on turn 15 or so?
The Marine landing one time is a key factor breaking through the SA defenders & meeting them as they land would probably be a lot easier than letting them get dry feet & organised.
Just makes them a bit diffrent from a standard battle adding variety, feel free to adapt any of it.

Well initially there are two opposing forces, the government and the rebels. (After the rescue, the Russians are chilling, so they're not the first ones to be involved.)

For Equatorial Guinea, I'd use something like this set up:

HQ (Green)
600 Gendarmes (Can't find equivalent in ORBAT, maybe I'll just make them mercs)
900 Paramilitary (Pro-Gov't Group, Green)
2,800 soldiers (Green Infantry)
1,000 MPRI "Instructors" (Green Mercenaries)
400 navy and 300 air force is what I'm still working on.

For the rebels I have:
HQ (Red, and all units are Red)
Snipers
Scouts
Insurgent Band
Insurgent Group
Rebel Company
Rebel Platoon
Militia Company
Militia Platoon
Machine Gun
Inf-AT section
Rebel Support Platoon (must accompany Rebel Platoon)
AGLs, SAMs, ATGLs

I'll work out the rest of the details later, this is just infantry.

As for nullification, you can blow up the area, assuming you have the means of doing so, and that will ensure that nothing lands there. Also, if you guess your opponent's moves, you can ambush him.

Originally Posted by Double_Deuce

Would you have an operational map where movement would take place between battles?

How were you planning to set up the sides? Would players get command of specific units? I think this point is a primary cause for player boredom as you end up with the same people playing each other over and over, Pbem after Pbem as their units operate in the same area and are continually make contact. BUT if you take away the players having the feel of operating a specific unit they feel ownership for that also lessens player interest.

Personally, I think with the all ideas floating around out there it might be good to get a group together to work on a single idea and incorporate all the best parts into something that would work long term.

I really like Skirmisher's "grid type map idea" for the operational concept and he seems to be keeping it small so that should help keep it flowing smoother over time.

I'm a fan of letting players design their own ORBATs, because it makes the players stick it out. The operational map would be the entire country. The max map size is 200 x 160 hexes, and each hex is 100 meters, so max map size is 20 x 16 kilometers, or 320 kilometers. The size of Annonbon is 17.5 km squared, which fits easily. The size of Bioko is 2,017 km squared, but there are only a few, (7 or so) points of interest. The biggest, Malabo, is only 200 square kilometers. The rest are much smaller. Bata is roughly 150 square kilometers. Since the entire country of Equatorial Guinea is the operating region, I would say that makeing a map would be impossible. If two forces meet, I can make a map for the place where they met, that's no more than 200 kilometers, or contains more than 20,000 hexes.

The players make their own strategic and tactical moves. You wear two hats, as an advisor to your president, and as a military commander. You decide where to strike, where to initially base your units, and how to structure your 1,000 ORBAT. My involvement is kept to a minimum, as I'm curious what you guys would do.

The exceptions here are the Equatorial Guinea's Gov't. which has an army of 5,000 and hence an ORBAT of 14,000 and the air/sea units I gave it, (keep in mind you still need people to run them) and the rebels, which initially start out with 3,000 points. However for Equatorial Guinea, it will be hard to replace your ORBAT, whereas the rebels primarily depend on victories. So it's a classic scenario of rebels starting out small and government starting out big.

However that also means that the players are responsible not just units that fight to be included in the ORBAT, but also transport units, supply units and logistics. For those playing as non-African countries, you only get to use units that you can airlift, and the transport planes must be a part of your ORBAT.

So here's the current situation, only 24 hours in the war:

On the Gov't side:

14,000 Equatorial Guinean ORBAT, must conform to the standards I've set.
1,000 US Marine and 1,000 US Army ORBAT.
1,000 French Army ORBAT
1,000 Spanish Army ORBAT (optional, if I get more players later on.)
1,000 UK Army ORBAT (optional, if I get more players later on.)

On the Rebel side:

3,000 Rebel ORBAT, must conform to the standards I've set.
3,000 Chinese Army ORBAT
1,000 Russian Army ORBAT
1,000 Inglorious Bastards ORBAT (more info on this later)
1,000 Cameroon Army ORBAT (optional, if I get more players later on.)
1,000 Gabon Army ORBAT (optional, if I get more players later on.)


Here's how the game is going to work. The first turn, everyone will occupy bases on the mainland, and I'll go over the ORBATs. Then everyone sends me their troops movements. If any troops clash, we'll have a battle. After the battle, or even during the battles but at the end of the day, we'll have resupply and repair the units at the base. How do you get a base? You establish one. So when doing ORBATs, don't just go all military, think about where you'll establish bases.

1. Orders Phase
2. Battle Phase
3. Acquisition Phase
4. Resupply Phase

If the battle is long, like really long, it can go through several phases, with reenforcements. There might even be several players fighting at once.

Also remember the missions. While US is there to crush the rebellion, France is there to merely assist. While China's there to support the rebellion, Russia's there to gain popular influence, and establish a foothold. The objectives are different for each player.

[Imp]

A few points
Map scale is 50m a hex so 4 maps to cover Annonobon.

When you say 1,000 ORBAT assume refering men, so 100 10 man squads or about the same & some vehicles if 8 man squads. Need to assign vehicles a standard crew cost or its a nightmare or say squads are 1 point vehicles 1 or 2 above cost XXX.
Tying to standard point costs could be tricky as a 3 man APC can cost more than a 10 man squad.

Thats a big force are we splitting into several groups I assume yes 3 Co a group would about fit for 3 groups.

Airdrop only, no problems but Russians can bring some quite good stuff to the game they have a lot of airdrop stuff, should they be using Paras. Talking airlift though think even MBTs can join the party if have a landing strip, Marines would land them
French are already there no idea what not Lecrecs but assume some vehicles there.

Strategic movement some forces may be mobile as in transport though slowest guy is the determining factor. Also need to take R&R into account somehow. Stay still for R&R

Adding reiforcements other players to an existing battle would be a nightmare.

An option would be sides purchase & split forces accordingly into battle groups.
Say 3 Fighting groups & 1 Arty, all units move, detemine battles, player allocates arty to battles then they start. If wanted reinforcements they would have to be set then to.

Lot of book keeping here keeping track.

I think DDs idea of banging a few heads together & coming up with a strategic thing that works is a good thing, keep it simple till hammer out & test. 2 sides say 3 forces each controlled by a player. Team decides strategic movement & Commander carries it out.
Examples arty assigning as said
Recon
R&R stationary? repair only if not in a base say. If attacked while doing can only use half your force to defend etc.
Doing on a grid is a good idea as maps flow into each other giving the feel of ebb & flow of battle as push across the map, also means need to do less maps.
Could try being slightly more ambitious slightly bigger grid say 7x7 possibly using something like TOAW to track units & there status (not thought through)
What constitutes a meeting or attack etc. Both moving, one stationary perhaps for 3 turns for dug in status.
If wanted to get clever could have 2 movement speeds column & battle formation which effect setup at battle start.
Time of day weather for vis, to incorporate this say 5 move phases (possible battles) a day 3 daytime, 1 night, 1 dusk/dawn. R&R can only be conducted every XX move phases & takes XX move phases to do.
Blah blah.

Like I said not easy folded my project early on once started thinking it through but a few people putting there heads together might pull it off. Then its a case of making maps. Say 100x100 with the borders containing 15 hexes from adjacent maps for continuity & to speed up making.

Also a simple system for book keeping needs to be sorted possibly spliting force into elements Inf/Armour/Support. For squads you would look at men lost & deduct that many from the next battle rounding to the nearest whole squad, 1 squad only can split to become 2 scouts etc. Damaged simple vehicles back in play after 2 move phases tanks more. Replacements? Alloted at certain times designers discretion.
A spreadsheet set up with some formula could then run it.

While think of repair could follow a points system. Each side gets a repair pool which could be reduced if they are attacked. Diffrent vehicle types cost diffrent amounts to fix from basic easy APC SPgun to MBT mobile AA hard.
If you have spare repair points you can spend double to fix them quicker. Gives the option to fix everything or rush the important stuff back to the front. Resupply is seperate & going into levels of damage probably to complex.

[Snipey]

Thank you Imp

Annobon is only 17.5 kilometers in area. It's 6.4 kilometers, by 3.2 kilometers. So 7 x 3.5 or 140 by 70 hexes map should cover it. I think you meant Bioko, and here you are correct and I'm wrong, thank you for catching that.

I meant 1,000 points. A US Ranger platoon is only 300 points. The units will be reinforced later on. But I'm trying to keep it realistic, so the US initial response would be quite small, but it will escalate, as the threat becomes more and more deadly. 1,000 points should be enough to secure and establish a base of operations and send a few scouting missions out, which is all that will happen on the first turn. Once a player sets up a base, then more reinforcements will come. It’s similar to Skirmirsher’s game, where we initially start with 25 men, but the gang sizes are going double or triple after the first turn.

You don't have to be using paras on the first turn if you are landing on an airstrip, or as long as you are landing on your own base that has an airstrip. The Wikipedia isn't entirely correct in terms of airstrips. Google Earth reveals airstrips on Annonbon, Bata, Malabo, Mongomo, Evinayong (used Yahoo! Maps for that one). Furthermore, one can land at Bitan, and drive, via dirt roads to Ebibeyin. Oyem (a city in Gabon) also has an airstrip. If you guys find other airstrips, you are welcome to let me know and use them. I’m not spending anymore time looking on Google Earth, it’s driving me crazy. If you aren’t using airstrips, then you have to use paras. Airstrips can be built using points, or destroyed, via combat and having your engineer units idling in the middle of the strip for 10 turns, so they can blow it up.

Flashpoints here would include airstrips, cities, towns and major roads and road crossings. I am leaving a lot of mini-campaign stuff upto individual commanders. You get to pick where you set up camp, you order your troops to take certain points and objectives. Battles will result not because of my order, but because of the orders of the players.

In terms of reinforcements, I came up with a unique system. You get points from the your local conquests, plus points from your home country. If you are playing as the Rebels, the Inglorious Bastards or the Equatorial Guinean Government, you only get points from local affairs, and/or victories. The points from the home country will be fixed, but the local affairs points will depend on Conquests. I figure if I give the players points and let them choose their reinforcements, and their ORBATs, including their supplies and supply lines, they will play the game longer and it’s less of a headache for me. So everything’s in points, not in manpower.

As for forces that represent them, I’ll pick and choose units from the Red ORBAT for rebels and Green ORBAT for government. The rest just use ORBAT of home countries, but they must keep in mind that unless the country is adjacent to Equatorial Guinea, all units must be delivered via air, and that takes up points as well.

A meeting is when two opposing groups run into each other. For instance, government and rebels want to control a key point, say a road crossing, or Bata’s airstrip. Both sides’ troops enter the vicinity, and a battle occurs.

I like your day/night time movement phases. However, I think it should only apply to non-motorized units, for instance when you are doing an infantry sweep of a region.

Repairs must be conducted at your own base, and will cost points, but less points then rebuying the units. Same with reinforcements, slightly lesser point value than the initial purchase. For instance, the British Guard Company has 8 men costing 32 points. However replacing one of those men, will cost only 3 points, not 4. Like a 75% of initial cost, rounded up. Repairs will depend on how badly a unit is damaged.

For re-supply, you just buy additional supply dumps, and/or trucks, I think one per 1000 points is reasonable. Dumps can only be placed at your bases, trucks can move.