Master of Magic Mod

[Foodstamp]

The Master of Magic Mod is nearing the first round of beta. All the units, wizards and heroes are in the game.

I am trying to decide how to implement magic. Here is how I am doing it now:

Wizards are ridiculously powerful. For instance, Tauron has 10 fire magic while Merlin has 5 astral, 5 nature.

Shamans usually get 1 holy and 1 to 2 in paths thematic to the nation.

Priests get 2 holy.

Engineers get 2 earth or 1 fire 1 earth depending on the race.

Magicians and warlocks get 3 magic in paths thematic to the nation.

There is a problem with the above system. Some nations have none of those units, or may only have shamans etc. For instance, the Gnolls have 0 magic users beyond their starting wizard and their heroes they have a chance to get.

So I am at a crossroads with this mod. Right now I want to strip all the casting units of their magic paths and give them magic attacks with ammo like they had in Master of Magic. If I go down this path, this pretty much makes them completely out of balance with the existing Dominions nations, but to be honest I had little chance of accomplishing that and staying true to the original anyway.

So what do you guys think?

[Squirrelloid]

With the caveat that nations without real mage units should have some thematic ones created for them. Strict adherence to the exact unit lists will fail to create a game that feels at all the same.

[Fantomen]

A MoM mod would rock!

I would create the MOM nations and units, but balance them like other dom3 nations, i think that in general magic in MoM isn´t more powerful than in dominions.

I don´t see why the pretender wizards should start with so high paths. In mom your chose your magic paths in relation to some other advantages just like in dom. So just make them new slightly expensive rainbows with some cool abilities. Artificer=forge bonus etc...

Units like warlocks and magicians shouldn´t be mages IMO, make them regular troops with new ranged attacks. That would be more in line with MoM design. Then add some new corresponding mages like Elder warlock, High magician etc with appropriate paths.

Nations with no "mage" troops could have their national mages be more like craftsmen with magic abilities. Engineers, smiths, etc...Earth and fire, water for lizardmen...

Would it be possible to make a spell that summons a random hero? All nations could get it and then you just add all the MOM heroes as unique summons to that random pool.

[vfb]

I agree, this MoM mod sounds extremely cool. It must have been a ton of work!

I'd like to see it out of balance with vanilla: Units should lose their magic paths and have ranged attacks with ammo. Heroes keep magic. I don't see a need to mix the MoM nations with vanilla, and I'd prefer it more like the original MoM.

If your Gnolls capture the Halfling capitol (or forts), you won't be able to recruit slingers, right? And there's no additional unrest, right? Different from original MoM IIRC, but pretty nice for keeping everyone's armies unique.

[Valerius]

I never played Master of Magic so I don't have that as a frame of reference but I don't think there's a need to balance it with vanilla. It seems like there will be enough nations that it could be a self contained mod.

[Squirrelloid]

wow, that's a diversity of opinions...

[Foodstamp]

Fantomen

I would create the MOM nations and units, but balance them like other dom3 nations, i think that in general magic in MoM isn´t more powerful than in dominions.

Eventually that is exactly what I plan to do at least with MY personal version of the mod. You guys are going to get a version that is as true to the original as I can do, and then maybe my expanded version.

Units like warlocks and magicians shouldn´t be mages IMO, make them regular troops with new ranged attacks. That would be more in line with MoM design. Then add some new corresponding mages like Elder warlock, High magician etc with appropriate paths.

I agree with the first part of this, and I am leaning heavily towards changing them back. It won't be hard. Dark Elves already have a weak magic attack, I can just modify it for the shamen and magicians.

As for the second part, that is what I pretty much planned to do to integrate it into my megamod I play with.

Would it be possible to make a spell that summons a random hero? All nations could get it and then you just add all the MOM heroes as unique summons to that random pool.

I am not sure that is possible. I could do it to a certain extent by overwriting the elemental royalty etc, but I hate to do that. I guess it wouldn't be a big deal if I wiped out all the dominion spells and only added MOM spells. Currently, Heroes are assigned to nations much like they are in Dom3. Most nations have two heroes, weaker nations like the Gnolls have 3 heroes that can show up. Wizards are starting scouts.


VFB

I agree, this MoM mod sounds extremely cool. It must have been a ton of work!

Hehe, to give you an idea. I started the Dark Elves and the Klackons in patch 3.04. I originally ripped and used the original graphics from the game. I didn't like the look, so then I redid every single sprite using dom3 sprites as the base. So I have done every single sprite and attack animation in the game twice!

I'd like to see it out of balance with vanilla: Units should lose their magic paths and have ranged attacks with ammo. Heroes keep magic. I don't see a need to mix the MoM nations with vanilla, and I'd prefer it more like the original MoM.

I expect most people will feel the same way, and I hope that is the case because it would be infinitely easier for me to actually finish this mod if that is the case; the only hard stuff left would be adding what spells will actually translate over. I also need to redo a few graphics I am just not satisfied with.

If your Gnolls capture the Halfling capitol (or forts), you won't be able to recruit slingers, right? And there's no additional unrest, right? Different from original MoM IIRC, but pretty nice for keeping everyone's armies unique.

Partially correct. The way it works right now is if you take their capital you CAN recruit their units. But there is no unrest and taking their other forts results in you being able to produce your units.


A few other tidbits that may be helpful:

The storyline for the nation/unit descriptions centers around the 14 wizards and races being banished by someone on Arcanus casting the spell of Mastery. While rotting away in the void, the wizards worked together to form a rift and landed in the Dominions universe. The idea is that the Wizards and the races they led on Arcanus and Myrror serve a fledging god in order to establish themselves in this new world.

The current mod is 14 mods (will be 15 including the spell/base) that can be toggled on and off to allow or disallow certain nations.

[Ballbarian]

Nothing to contribute except to say cool...

[Stavis_L]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

The storyline for the nation/unit descriptions centers around the 14 wizards and races being banished by someone on Arcanus casting the spell of Mastery. While rotting away in the void, the wizards worked together to form a rift and landed in the Dominions universe. The idea is that the Wizards and the races they led on Arcanus and Myrror serve a fledging god in order to establish themselves in this new world.

Er...so the wizards themselves are not pretenders, then? Are you aligning particular wizards with particular races, then? (I always used the custom option, myself, so I no longer remember what the MoM "defaults" are.) So in this case, race == nation, with a preselected wizard as (presumably non-recruitable) starting scout?

Personally, I'd go with the Wizards == Pretenders option, as you're quite likely to lose your wizard pretty quickly otherwise, and no way to summon them back from the void.

[Foodstamp]

The idea is that wizards serve the pretenders. Each wizard is aligned with one race via starting scout. I originally did this because of how Dominions populates standard pretenders for every nation slot. But lately I have found a way to take pretenders completely out of the game. I can do so by restricting them to special/independent and/or unused nation slots.

So maybe I will change it where the only pretender you can use for each nation is a wizard. If I did that, I would have to rewrite maybe 50% of the unit, commander, wizard, hero and nation descriptions because often they refer to the storyline of the wizards being banished via the Spell of Mastery, breaching the void, coming to the new world and finding a god to serve.