Exploit question

[namad]

that's when there was this kitty cat with lasers that lasers glow when raptors shrieking fish

[Foodstamp]

This motivational poster I stumbled across reminds me of this thread:

[Quitti]

Originally Posted by Baalz

DotA has the absolute worst community I have ever experience in a MP computer game...

Unfortunately, I'll have to agree. The game/scenario is fine though when played with a couple of friends.

[Kuritza]

Originally Posted by Baalz

At the risk of sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong - this explains so much! DotA has the absolute worst community I have ever experience in a MP computer game, and that's saying quite a bit. If you don't play your character the way the other players expect you to you'll generally be derided as a newb and looser in the most derisive pubescent terminology, most likely followed by a vote to kick you. Heaven forbid you pick a skill that 'everyone knows' is sub optimal, or try out a character you haven't played before in a random pickup game. The game was kind of fun, but I couldn't stand the community - even when you're winning its just no fun to have harpies abrasively second guessing you every time you make the slightest mistake. This explains a lot about your positions Kuritza, you come from a very different world with different expectations about gaming and appropriate behavior.

There are very different communities even it Dota, Baalz. In some closed leagues, you get banned for flaming others IMMEDIATELY. But yes, there are expectations there. Nobody will say a word to you, other than 'respect', if you do well by playing your hero in a weird way, but if you start helping your enemies, you wont get a good feedback from your team for sure. If you start actively 'feeding', like helping others win if you know what I mean, you also get banned, without any flames or harsh words. And it keeps everyone happy, except these who would spoil the game by misbehaving in any way.
Oh, and you probably had such a bad impression because you played in publics. Just as I finally got fed up by open Dominions games, where every now and then somebody decides to backstab you, because somebody else is winning anyway, or even to help that guy win, or because you killed him in another game, etc.
Too bad there's no place to learn Dota other than in publics. Now thats sad indeed, publics are terrible in all regards, including the language used.

But that's off topic indeed. As for me being a troll - read what people started respondig to my initial post that gemgen-removing shouldnt have been made an integral part of CBM everyone plays now, or first comments to Clam Shortage for that matter, and tell me if its me who is trolling or posting disrespectful things. Same untolerant attitude, from everyone.
At least I have an excuse of leaving community soon anyway.

I would be glad to try a no-gemgens game, were it a separate mod. It was an easy thing to do, and I even suggested it back then. It kills some already weak nations, it buffs some already strong nations, but that can be fixed in further versions of CBM indeed, provided that QM wants it. I've got an impression he's fine with crappy Oceania, and everyone considers Bandar Log a fine nation with great military despite all statistical evidence, because they can still kill an opponent or two time after time.
Yet, now CBM just cuts off the strategies you guys dont like, and leaves no choice other that 'dont use CBM at all and try to find enough people for a vanilla game'. This point still stands true despite all your provocative claims about me.

[namad]

no gemgens was and is a separate mod.... for a couple months people downloaded it separately... it was just so insanely popular that the main popular download now happens to include it... it's extremely easy to set a game of gemgen included cbm up still ...

[Baalz]

[too much holiday cheer]
Meh, my own person experience was mostly in Demigod - which apparently drafted almost exactly the same community (and mirrored my experience when I tried DotA). I played very well, was in the top 10 players worldwide in a couple categories, but I kept getting idiots ragging me because I didn't play exactly how they expected. I played character X, and if I didn't max out power Y as they expected I could expect constant BS...right up until I dominated, and maybe if I was lucky got an apology for the asinine treatment I got for 90% of the game when my score tripled my nearest teammate. Heaven forbid I go with a build designed to help the team rather than rack up the kills, if I didn't have the highest score I was a noob looser despite the fact my team won handily (due to my support role). And God forbid I try something that didn't work out, if my team didn't win because I was playing the "healer" who didn't heal I was absolutely due for the most vitriolic rhetoric that the basement dwelling caste of our society could produce.

I can't address the assertion that there were different groups which I didn't participate, all I can say is that my experience (and apparently others posting to this thread) was that DotA players are a bunch of pimply faced kids who would rather yell at people than have a fun game.

My point is that the Dominions culture is quite different, and much more open to people playing stuff because it's fun or interesting rather than because it's the universally accepted "optimal" strategy. I don't want to get into a discussion about whether specifically my suggestions on strategies are good, but rather to point out that your position seems to be "that wouldn't work, that's not how most people would/should approach this problem and therefore you're a fool for not doing that." I think you could have a lot more fun playing the game with the attitude of "I'm gonna go with the monkeys and see what kind of damage I can do". [/too much holiday cheer]

[rdonj]

CBM 1.5 is still a perfectly playable version of the game, and it still has gemgens. Nothing preventing you from playing CBM without them if you don't want, other than not being able to find other players who are willing to play with gemgens, now that you don't have to have them. Most people seem quite happy to be rid of gem gens, but there are still enough people who are willing to play with them that it should be possible to get a game going. I am playing in such a game myself, that started after CBM 1.6 with 12 players in it. Of course, this has already been pointed out to you.

If you can find others who will play with gem gens, it shouldn't be a problem. If you can't find others who will play with gem gens, your argument basically becomes "I can't play the game the way I want to anymore because the rest of the community hates those settings. I hate QM, he's ruined the game for me by making it so much better for everyone else that they won't even contemplate playing vanilla anymore."



Also, IIRC CBM version 1.6 was a transitional version. QM didn't want to make too many more changes on top of the big clam removal change, and after it got some playtesting then he'd see about doing balance changes on nations that might be excessively hurt by their lack. Changes to make up for the lack of gem gens have never been out of the picture, they've just been waiting their turn. If I'm wrong someone can feel free to correct me on this, but that's the impression I had when QM was putting 1.6 together.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Baalz

[too much holiday cheer]
I played very well, was in the top 10 players worldwide in a couple categories, but I kept getting idiots ragging me because I didn't play exactly how they expected...

Wow that's bogus.

[Kuritza]

Originally Posted by Baalz

My point is that the Dominions culture is quite different, and much more open to people playing stuff because it's fun or interesting rather than because it's the universally accepted "optimal" strategy. I don't want to get into a discussion about whether specifically my suggestions on strategies are good, but rather to point out that your position seems to be "that wouldn't work, that's not how most people would/should approach this problem and therefore you're a fool for not doing that." I think you could have a lot more fun playing the game with the attitude of "I'm gonna go with the monkeys and see what kind of damage I can do". [/too much holiday cheer]

Yes it is different. You can notice how I joined this forum almost three years ago, but wasnt making such flamefests until now - because this forum is different.
And I never, ever said I only want to see 'optimal' strategies in Dominions. Hell, in all my games I was trying some fun crap - and it worked quite well. I only tried all-out clam-monkeys in Lapis after, like, three attempts to play Bandar Log differently. When I say that your tricks wont work, I mean that you wont win a game by relying on such things as your main and only strategy. But God forbid me to say anything bad to somebody who joins a game to try a markata-campaign for fun. I am playing a blood-clam-lamias-tarts LA Man now; do you think I dont like weird strategies?! Think again.
[Cough... Before anyone asks, yes I know these things are actually mainstream, but afaik not for LA Man. Cough.]

What I find a really, REALLY bad behaviour is deliberately disrupting game balance just because you see that you cant win anymore. Some player finds himself in a bad position, sees that nation X is on a winning spree and attacking it would be a suicide, and starts thwarting everyone who tried to fight that nation X.
For him, its reasonable because this way he can have some fun. But what about these he backstabs? They have invested lots of time in this game, half a year maybe; they were fighting a stronger foe - and they had a chance to win. SO much excitement. And then this dude backstabs them and ruins all - you cant both fight a winning nation AND that dude.
Wasted.
Nice? I think not.
I believe Archeolept was also complaining about these who join a game to help their friends win; like, casting Crumble on their own capitol with Victory Point to let that golem storm it faster.
I'd also include turtling/burning earth thing, but some might disagree.

I've seen such things again and again here, and eventually got tired of them. Thats why I mentioned closed DOTA leagues in the first place.
By the way, you have started that 'Good players pledge' thread, so you must have thought about such things yourself.

[Sombre]

And so the topic moves to ganging and kingmaking. Eventually it will cover all eventualities and the entire forum can b closed.