Corydalis - running

[Kheldron]

OMG!!
Rollback...and not just one but TWO ?!?

Are you mad?
Rollback is always a very bad thing to happen, TWO is a game killer.
I don't want to sound hysterical so I'll explain my worries.

One rollback basically is :
- to compensate for the frustration of a minority you frustrate the majority as each player who gets unlucky the second time gets frustrated, each player who gets luckier makes an opponent unhappy. Basically you just frustrate everyone to some extent.
- All those who made their turn on time cross their fingers hoping that the one who staled doesn't take advantage of knowing what the others did ( he just has to look at his staled-turn afterall). That's bad enough as it generates potential suspicion among players.

With 2 rollbacks, it is that but many times worse as there is noway we can all redo our turns as if we didn't know what had happened in reality AND really think all the others will do the same. That's idealistic.

Ever heard of the Game Theory? You have 2 players. If both of them play down they both win and share. If both play up they both lose. But, if either plays up while the other plays down, the one up wins all. In a perfect world, players would be love-trusting and always play down to avoid losing all. In the real world, this theory essentially depicts the limits of human nature as they usally both play up, mistrusting the other and finally both losing.

Now that only depicts a situation with 2 people. Think of what it is with 11...
Copenhagen and its recent fiasco can quite easily convince you of the reality of this theory.

Frustration and suspicion are there and they are game-killers. Avoiding speaking of it won't make it disappear either.

I remember another game where we had a rollback and everyone felt bad for it and, thank to Llamabeast who had a backup of the turn before the rollback we just went on. It IS possible.

Imo, there are 3 possibilities :
A/ we ask Llamabeast to go back in time if possible and forget about this rollback. To compensate in an even manner and avoid suspicion and frustration due to hazard, we can all give some gold and/or gems to those who stale unknowingly. 100gp and 1 gem is not much for any of us but 10x100gp + 10x1gem is enough to compensate any stale at this stage of the game imho.

B/ we only go back to turn 13 as it were (only one rollback) so as to avoid having nearly all the players do again a turn they already know the result of. And we try to trust those staling
not to abuse theur position.

C/ we stay with those 2 rollbacks and pray.

Vote?

To be honest I'm just enthralled in this game, love the map, had a nice early game and would hate to see it all wrecked. I just hate rollbacks since I saw it kill one of my games more than a year ago.

That said, I still have to go back to home to look at the new turn. I had 2 nice events (500gp and some gems) and fear to find instead that my God died stupidly, no good event and whatever the DRN has in store.

[Fantomen]

In general I agree Kheldron.

But this early in the game I beleive the damage is minimal compared to later on. I made the rollbacks literally minutes after the second hosting, and that was just because I had some connection problems. So it is basically just one rollback.

I felt I had made a promise as organiser that the game would be delayed for a certain time, and had to keep it.

I understand your frustration and I appologize for my mistake(with the timer). I can promise you it will not be repeated.

There will be no vote or further debacle, we go on as we are. I prefer some players being mad at me as admin and take the blame on myself rather than leave room for a pointless drama. Let's not go "Setsumi" on this 'k?

I anyone feels very upset and mistreated, please send me a pm about it so I can send you some sweet words to soothe your enraged spirit.

Sorry again Kheldron, I hope your nation don't suffer any damage.

[Tollund]

Originally Posted by Kheldron

OMG!!
Rollback...and not just one but TWO ?!?

Well, since two turns happened in a single day, when the timer is supposed to allow for a minimum of 24 hours, then yes, a rollback is definitely needed. You could just play your turn you know, instead of spending time complaining on this forum that you don't get the advantage of two turns where your opponent didn't even get to act once. Frankly, turn 12 is far too early to start complaining that somebody has too much information because of a single extra turn.

[zzcat]

I'll take C. I hate rollbacks too, but an early game rollback is not so unacceptable. For me the only case which should never allow a rollback is someone starts a surprise attack in the turn so the rollback will expose all his plan to the opponent.

[Kheldron]

That's ok Fantomen.
I was just mad at the airport, having only access to my mails and old nightmare of awful rollbacks, not even knowing what happened, and wrote more by intinct and frustration than anything else.

I am a sanguine hardcore gamer afterall

In fact I'm much less maddened at it now that a few hours and real life passed though it went quite bad for me.
My 500gp + gems events turned into vine men on capital and another bad event for about 500gp loss. Add to it the loss on next turns until I settle it back and...well Fate don't like the complainers

[pyg]

Well I staled because all of my other games were on pause and this one hosted first. I appreciate the rollback, but I don't really have a good excuse.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Well, as usual when rollbacks happen to me, my commanders and troops have gotten very, very confused. This time it's not so bad. I ended up having one of my Lizard Kings turn into a City Guard while still retaining his priestlyness. I had a Sauromancer decide to forsake magic and become a level 3 priest. I had a City Guard surprise me by taking several levels in magic paths that I normally don't have, and one of my Soulless has suddenly gained sentience.

In order to keep the game rolling along, I was hoping someone would allow me to run these wierdos up against their army somewhere, so I would not abuse these guys.

[Kheldron]

Yeah I had the same problem last turn, but it was solved by selecting "redo turn from start" as they weren't there after it.
It's strange you didn't get a "Nagot gik fel" if you kept them.

There is also the matter of several players "cheating" according to the computer which I assume is a consequence of orders from after the rollback overlapsing orders from before.

Strange enough I had some new problems this turn (14) : a gothic master I recruited came without magic paths and one of my provinces "lost" about 6000 people without any event. I say strange because usually the rollback problems don't last after the rollbacked turn in my experience.

[Herode]

Confirmed : rollbacks allways went without any issue until now.
But this time, I spotted two bugs :
- 32 line units appearing in one of my provinces without any event
- one spy visible on the map but not on the "f1" summary. BTW, even on the map view, I don't have any commander box to click, thus I am unable to give him any orders.

Both arose on the last turn (14), not on turn 13.

[Fantomen]

Strange indeed.

The cheat messaged seem to be the usual artifacts. I've seem this before.

As one of the "cheating" nations I can confirm that no extra gold was granted.