Dispel Question

[GrudgeBringer]

I was talking to a very knowledgeable player and he mentioned something that really made me think...

If he is correct, then 1149 is the most S gems that can be used in a dispel spell.

That would be 150 for the spell and 999 max extra gems added (anyway that is all that will count) for a total of 1149.

So what happens if I have 1200 invested in Well of Misery? Does it AUTO DISPEL because I used the max...OR am I now immune to dispel? Could be a game decider.

As long as I am asking questions, I have 1 more a little off this topic.

IF I cast Dispel and it does take down the spell, and then cast 500 D gems on Well of misery, will the dispel spell go first so it is clear and I will get the slot automatically. I would not want to throw away 500 death gems if the slot wasn't clear.

Of course all of this would be end game with the number of gems I am talking about, but I am curious.

Any help would be appreciated!!

[thejeff]

For Dispel (or overwrite) attempts only the extra gems count. The base cost doesn't matter. (Shouldn't it be 1029, anyway? Isn't Dispel only 30 gems?)

Ritual spells are cast in (pseudo)random order. Caster id or reverse caster id. So the Well could come first and then the Dispel.

[Baalz]

There's a die roll involved in the dispel, it's described in the manual. The amount of gems used generally overwhelms the relatively small amount of variation from the die roll, but when you're talking about min or max gem usage die roll is what matters. Also, don't forget that caster level factors in, so a level 9/10 pretender putting up a 999 gem spell is pretty tough nut to crack. In extreme (large game) cases it can even be worthwhile to empower up even higher if you're putting up a game winning global that is certain to have a big dispel cast at it.

[Psycho]

As far as I know, the maximum number of gems you can put in a global is 999. This number of 999 includes both the base cost and the extra gems. So, the more expensive the base cost, the less maximum extra gems you can put. Only extra gems count towards overwrite or dispel attempts. This means that dispel, being the cheapest global, can have the most extra gems put into it and therefore should be able to dispel any other spell. Of course, factors such as caster level and drn also factor in the equation.

[Micah]

Psycho nailed it.

[GrudgeBringer]

Yes 30 gems is correct on dispel cost.

So what your saying is I can only cast a global using 999 TOTAL gems and no more.

Therefore, it can ALWAYS be dispelled.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok, then the total Gems ever spent on the Global itself can be 999, therefore the largest Genm cost that can be cast to Dispel is also 999 (plus gem cost to cast).

All things being equal, then the Caster may be the difference in keeping or dispelling the Global.

Am I understanding this correctly?

[thejeff]

You'll also have an advantage in most cases, since the path requirements for Dispel are relatively low. You can get a better caster level bonus with Dispel than with the Nexus, for example.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by GrudgeBringer

Ok, then the total Gems ever spent on the Global itself can be 999, therefore the largest Genm cost that can be cast to Dispel is also 999 (plus gem cost to cast).

All things being equal, then the Caster may be the difference in keeping or dispelling the Global.

Am I understanding this correctly?

yes; I do want to point out however that the Death globals, Well of Misery, but especially Burden of time are a little special.

The Rod of Dark Regency (or whatever its called) plus the jade mask (or whatever its called). plus wizards robe, plus row plus ros means that theoretically a

D10 wiz + 3 (regency) +2 for mask, +2 for rings + robe = d18caster.
If you want to push the example even further you could use a 4 armed caster to add an additional 2 bonus.

This is the only case that I know where you may be able to make an (almost) non dispellable global.

The point I am making is that death magic can be more difficult to dispell due to the number of path boni from artifacts.

People tend to forget the extrapaths portion. But in the previous example, 11 extra paths for a burden of time(?) can lead to consternation by your opponents.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

yes; I do want to point out however that the Death globals, Well of Misery, but especially Burden of time are a little special.

The Rod of Dark Regency (or whatever its called) plus the jade mask (or whatever its called). plus wizards robe, plus row plus ros means that theoretically a

D10 wiz + 3 (regency) +2 for mask, +2 for rings + robe = d18caster.
If you want to push the example even further you could use a 4 armed caster to add an additional 2 bonus.

This is the only case that I know where you may be able to make an (almost) non dispellable global.

The point I am making is that death magic can be more difficult to dispell due to the number of path boni from artifacts.

People tend to forget the extrapaths portion. But in the previous example, 11 extra paths for a burden of time(?) can lead to consternation by your opponents.

This all sounds great in theory, but in reality you can add as many boosters as you want and it won't make one bit of difference when it comes to the calculations involving globals.

As it is only the base magic level of the caster that is considered for the +5 per level bonus you get for each level over the casting requirements, and any extra levels gained from boosters are ignored.

I believe this has been confirmed by lch from the game code, and also ties in with some brief testing I did last year when I first learned about this myself following an IRC conversation I had with Micah.