Wishlist: Spreadsheet Of Statistics For Tanks

[jeffreywilens]

I was wondering if there is an existing spreadsheet that lists the major weapons systems (primarily tanks and IFVs) used inthe game that can be used as a ready references to compare the Russian tanks versus the American tanks on the various capabilities. For example, one could scan through and see what systems are capable of punching the front armor on an M1A2 for example by noting the armor values for steel and heat and comparing that to the penetration values for various weapons.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by jeffreywilens

I was wondering if there is an existing spreadsheet that lists the major weapons systems (primarily tanks and IFVs) used inthe game that can be used as a ready references to compare the Russian tanks versus the American tanks on the various capabilities. For example, one could scan through and see what systems are capable of punching the front armor on an M1A2 for example by noting the armor values for steel and heat and comparing that to the penetration values for various weapons.

You could run through each OOB in mobhack and export as .csv then read the csvs into a spreadsheet and then play with the data.

Or do the same with a database that can eat csv (I think the one that comes with openoffice for free can). A database would be the best solution, since importing more than a select few OOBs would probably choke a simple spreadsheet programme (too much data).

Which is what we have internally for our own checking - a Builder C++ app that eats all the OOB data, and we can then run SQL queries on the 32+ megabytes of table data for MBT...

Like this one I did some time ago, when trying to make sense of centurions armour suites:

Select U.NationID,N.NationName,U.name,U.slot,u.SteelHullf ront,u.steelhullside,u.steelhullrear,u.steelturret front,u.steelturretside,u.steelturretrear,u.steelt op
from Units U, NationNames N
where ( ( LOWER(U.name) like "%centurion%") OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%semel%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%olifant%") OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%sh'ot%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%pz%%55%") OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%pz%%57%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%81%") OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%101%") OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%102%") OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%104%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%tariq%"))
AND U.nationID=n.nationID
order by u.steelhullfront

And then the app can save the result set to a csv file for spreadsheet examination. Example of the result set for that old query - which probably misses some darned cent variant or other I bet! ! - attached.

And no - we are not releasing that to end users since the app is quite kludgey, and also involves the installation of the Paradox database engine etc.

And also - remember to reload all your data whever a patch is released !

Cheers
Andy

[jeffreywilens]

Thanks. I looked at Mobhack and viewed an individual OOB (I picked an obscure one so as not to mess anything up). I did not see an "export to CSC" command. I did see "write CSV files" but couldn't see where any file was saved.

Probably I'm looking for more of a crib sheet and I may have to manually write down the pertinent information onto the spreadsheet if there is no way to filter certain fields and have them input into the correct fields on the spreadsheet.

I do have Excel.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by jeffreywilens

Thanks. I looked at Mobhack and viewed an individual OOB (I picked an obscure one so as not to mess anything up). I did not see an "export to CSC" command. I did see "write CSV files" but couldn't see where any file was saved.

Probably I'm looking for more of a crib sheet and I may have to manually write down the pertinent information onto the spreadsheet if there is no way to filter certain fields and have them input into the correct fields on the spreadsheet.

I do have Excel.

CSV is "Comma Separated Variable" - a format as old as computers, most likely. A simple text file you can open in a text editor, with variables separated by commas.

If you unzip the file to somewhere, excel should show it as an excel type (with appropriate icon). Otherwise, use file/open and select CSV from the types available in the dialogue. You may need to tell it that line 1 of the data is column headers.

For Mobhack - load the file and then press the "dump CSV" button. All OOBS will be processed (ignore any messages re missing oobs, in WW2 anyway). The info text bar at the bottom will tell you where. Each OOB will have a separate weapons, units and formations CSV file dumped.

(All the WW2 OOBS as a CSV dump are 12MB)

Combining several OOBS into one spreadsheet if required, I leave up to you.

Andy

NB - the CSV dumps do not have all the added data, the code is very old. Things like winter icon numbers and so on wont be listed.

[dmnt]

For my recent needs I did this and it might be suitable for you:
http://tukijaverkosto.org/obat/?cid=59

This doesn't include gun details in the main screen but there's even "similarity" search so you can find similar units. Some units have ATGMs as secondary weapons in the OOB so this system is slightly confused with them. You can also limit the year of availability if you want to compare the tanks of certain year to each other.

Also: Here you can d/l the PostgreSQL database dump: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46034

[jeffreywilens]

MobHack:

I loaded an OOB (Slovakia) and clicked the dump CSV button after using the load/save tab.

It said it was dumping files but it seemed to reference a lot of OBTs (like 1-80+). Anyway, it says it saved to a text file in a long path ending in \gamedata\oobs.

But I see no text files in that directory except info.txt. Nothing relevant in the custom oobs or default oobs folders either.

Then I clicked "compatability files" on the ribbon just above the list of files and the csv files appear. So Windows 7 users need to do this. I should have remembered this because it is also required to see the saved PBEM games.

Yeah all the data is there in CSV but it is massive for each OOB and would take very long to extract the relevant information for the limited purposes. Someone with a lot more knowledge of manipulating spreadsheets than I would have to figure out how to use this efficient.

For example, I am Germany and I'm fighting Russians in 2010. I want a simple chart listing the various main tanks of the capabilities so I can decide which German units to buy to counter them. This would apply as to their defensive and offensive capabilities. For now, simply writing down the raw data on a simple spreadsheet or piece of paper will probably suffice.


DMNT (Dammit?): Thanks I looked at that webpage it looks fun but again doesn't allow for direct comparisons of say Russian v. German tanks on the same page.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by jeffreywilens

MobHack:

I loaded an OOB (Slovakia) and clicked the dump CSV button after using the load/save tab.

It said it was dumping files but it seemed to reference a lot of OBTs (like 1-80+). Anyway, it says it saved to a text file in a long path ending in \gamedata\oobs.

But I see no text files in that directory except info.txt. Nothing relevant in the custom oobs or default oobs folders either.

Then I clicked "compatability files" on the ribbon just above the list of files and the csv files appear. So Windows 7 users need to do this. I should have remembered this because it is also required to see the saved PBEM games.

Yeah all the data is there in CSV but it is massive for each OOB and would take very long to extract the relevant information for the limited purposes. Someone with a lot more knowledge of manipulating spreadsheets than I would have to figure out how to use this efficient.

For example, I am Germany and I'm fighting Russians in 2010. I want a simple chart listing the various main tanks of the capabilities so I can decide which German units to buy to counter them. This would apply as to their defensive and offensive capabilities. For now, simply writing down the raw data on a simple spreadsheet or piece of paper will probably suffice.


DMNT (Dammit?): Thanks I looked at that webpage it looks fun but again doesn't allow for direct comparisons of say Russian v. German tanks on the same page.

One point - you mention Windows 7, and the problems of needing to click on compatibility mode to see the files (which should be under ../game data/oobs)

Did you install the game to the /program files/Shrapnel games/camo... default, or instead to a directory outside the /program files/ hierarchy?.

The game should not be installed under the /program files/ hierarchy if you have Windows Vista or seven. We will be adding that advisory in the game Guide in the forthcoming patch.

As to your problem.

You will need to learn to drive your spreadsheet, looking at how to sort columns, most likely

If you have the CD edition of the game, and not the free demo then you can use the encyclopaedia sort function. Sort by (this date + unit class) - then all the MBT currently available are grouped together, all the CS tanks, all the wheeled APC etc. All the units from other eras are filtered out. Then you simply run the mouse down looking at the base stats, on the unit list buttons that appears on the mouse-over event.

Also - you will need to run the APCalc programme to look at which of your weapons can punch through the armour at what range. APCalc is in the game root folder.

Andy

[jeffreywilens]

Andy,

Yes I did install to Program Files on Windows 7 x64 bit version. Apart from the need to use "compatibility files" there does not seem to be any problem. In your advisory, you should mention that if they already installed to Program Files, then "missing files" can be found by clicking on "compatability files."

I do have the CD version (glad to pay for it) and do use the encylopedia to get the raw stats for my "cheat sheet." But it's not really a "spreadsheet" since it only displays data for one unit at a time as far as I know.

To see what weapons will punch what armor I just look at my "cheat sheet" I create by writing down the relevant data from the encylopedia. I suppose I will do this in more detail for lots of units but it makes sense to wait for the new patch before spending time to do this, and then I can post my work product on the forum.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by jeffreywilens

Andy,

Yes I did install to Program Files on Windows 7 x64 bit version. Apart from the need to use "compatibility files" there does not seem to be any problem. In your advisory, you should mention that if they already installed to Program Files, then "missing files" can be found by clicking on "compatability files."

I do have the CD version (glad to pay for it) and do use the encylopedia to get the raw stats for my "cheat sheet." But it's not really a "spreadsheet" since it only displays data for one unit at a time as far as I know.

To see what weapons will punch what armor I just look at my "cheat sheet" I create by writing down the relevant data from the encylopedia. I suppose I will do this in more detail for lots of units but it makes sense to wait for the new patch before spending time to do this, and then I can post my work product on the forum.

The "compatibility files" setting links the files that Windows squirreled away in your /user/ hierarchy and shows them as if they were really in the game folder (where they should be).

However - end uses may not know that in order to send PBEM files that they need to look in the \user\ hierarchy. Additionally - the game can get confused by this, as can the patch upgrade installers - sometimes the files get written to the /user/ hierarchy and therefore do not correctly overwrite the game files. Or (as with my Borland C++ Builder development environment) - it simply refuses to allow the programme to update(write to) its own temporary data files, since they are in what W7 considers is a "system" area. This may well be happening to the game as well.

All in all - for any programmes developed before Vista, then it is best to install them to a folder outside the managed folders.

C:\AAA\Games is therefore a good place for such.

NB - I discovered the other day that W7 considers the C:\ root directory a "system managed" folder too. I had copied a text file off a memory stick onto there, and from then on whenever I tried to move it or update it, I got annoying dialogue boxes asking permission to move or alter this administrator system file. Playing with Windows 7's arcane file permissions would not remove the annoying UAC message even when I gave all permissions to all users for that file. It seems that if you copy files from a stick - avoid C:\ or the \program files\ hierarchies as destinations. (Deleting the annoying copy, and copying again from the stick to the \users\public folder that Windows exposes to the network, resulted in a text file that no longer kept interrupting me with requests for admin permissions).

Andy

[dmnt]

Originally Posted by jeffreywilens

MobHack:

DMNT (Dammit?): Thanks I looked at that webpage it looks fun but again doesn't allow for direct comparisons of say Russian v. German tanks on the same page.

I can sure add a comparison page - how do you think it should work? Pinned to a year or not? Closest match to each unit?

Now I've done the comparisons I do (for PBEM games) by loading the national lists to different browser tabs and shifting between them.

I'll see if I can do the new files soon, it takes some time first dumping the csv data, loading it to the database and then clustering the data.