Why I love SP and why I hate SP

[gila]

Originally Posted by JohnHale

One thing missing is that FLAK never shoots at its own sides' aircraft. Really, it should blaze away at everything that flies.... (in SPWW2, and maybe early SPMBT time-frame, at least)

Should they really?
I would think there is some training on aircraft ID's and a leader with glasses within AA units

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by gila

Should they really?
I would think there is some training on aircraft ID's and a leader with glasses within AA units

Tell that to the Argentinians who shot their own dagger down as it approached Stanley in '82. Or the UK tornado shot down by a US patriot battery in the gulf war, etc....

"Blue on Blue" is still quite common, even with modern electronic IFF etc - in fact that can make it worse, if a programming error creeps in.

Modern kids tend to believe the software without questioning it (see the endless GPS navigation hiccup news stories) - us old folks still tend to rely on those paper things called maps...


Cheers
Andy

[JTullman]

ugh... the friendly fire discussion is wearing out.

Yes, their will always be friendly fire:
1. from the ground to the air.
2. from the air to the ground.
3. from the air to the air.
4. from the ground to the ground.

My point is simply that in a modern air force tactical air power has reached a point that friendlies are infrequently, accidentally killed. Note that I said friendlies, yes we accidentally bomb the wrong building, farm, mosque, 7/11 or even the wrong country, whatever. But we rarely bomb our own guys in uniform. You can comb the internet all day long but the numbers don't add up. The USAF/coalition has basically been flying non-stop since Sept. 11 2001 and we only have a handful of accidents.
Also, the type of friendly fire I'm referring to is the completely absurd and atrocious type "Lets shoot at vehicles when the enemy does not have any in the whole country" type. For instance Soviet incursion into Afghanistan. Mujahideen forces had minimal if any vehicles but try telling that the Su-25 pilots when your totally sweet Spetsnaz mech column goes up in flames.

As for Flak/AAA attacking friendlies. The original comment by JohnHale pertained to WINSPWW2. Which would make sense because (to my knowledge) those systems did not have IFF interrogation systems. They just had the Mark I eyeball.
Flak/AAA friendly fire in the present tense is hard to judge. So many nations purchased a complete IADS system from Russia that it would be very difficult to determine how reliable the IFF is. There's just so many factors to account for, most of which are well beyond the scope of this game. Lets put it this way, if I were a pilot in one of those countries with the old Russian systems, I would be nervous.

[JTullman]

One more thing that just dawned on me...

Isn't friendly fire from the guy standing behind you much more likely than a jet flying about your head?

Just some food for thought.

[Imp]

Okay this is now degenerating so last post agree air could work a bit better but its an old game & a very minor part of it. All your issues could probably be fixed by changing your playing style/ tactics.
Like I said have no trouble with blue on blue airstrikes because I call them in sensibly & you did notice from Mobhacks very clear description of decisive force 3-1 is a minimum 6-1 plus a load of arty is better. Dont share the love concentrate it 6 units firing at 1 rather than spreading it about.
Anything concentrated fire over a short period is better than light fire over a long period & heres an example of why.
Fire an artilery piece for 10 turns at a target it gets to recover by attempting rally each turn so once per recieved fire.
Fire 5 arty pieces for 2 turns so same number of shots it gets to attempt to recover twice & is in a worse state to recover from.
As I said even if experince moral are in the 70s or 80s doing what Mobhack said you will take virtualy any position in 2-3 turns.
Taking long to medium shots with a couple of units you will most likely be there all day.
The mobility & ease of calling arty making it easier to achieve decisive force & the extra lethality of weapons comes through in the game if playing a modern force. MBT games of this nature last far fewer turns than WWII games because of these factors if you use tactics that suite the force you are using.