MP: Noobs are gone frenzY - Late Age - (Running)

[Catquiet]

Abysia : Herbiedu does not honor NAPs.

Here is the basic situation.

Utgard comes into contact with Abysia. In order to secure one of my borders, I enter into a long-term NAP with Abysia.

Utgard later comes into contact with C'tis. I offer a NAP3 to C'tis which is refused.

Since I dislike sharing a border with a nation that refuses to sign a NAP, Utgard builds up it's army and moves to attack C'tis. It is only then that I am informed (by C'tis) that Abysia/C'tis have a defense pact.

When asked Abysia tells me that he will ignore the terms of our NAP to honor his defense pact with C'tis which was made first.

I submit that Abysia negotiated our NAP in bad faith. If Abysia had a previous agreement that could override our NAP, Utgard should have been informed at the time the NAP was made instead of waiting until we tripped over it like a landmine.

Utgard asks that all men of honor consider any agreement made with Abysia to be null-and-void and requests assistance in the destruction of the Abysia/C'tis alliance.

[Herbiedu]

This is stupid! I did not even cancel the NAP so far that is between Utgard and Abysia. So at this time the NAP is still there. Here is the massage that i wrote to Utgard:

Utgard wrote me:
"Since C'tis refused to sign a NAP with Utgard I am moving to secure my borders. C'tis claims you will weigh in on his side of the conflict due to a defense pact between the two of you.

Are you going to honor your NAP with Utgard?"

My answer was:

"You have been informed by the Nation of C'tis that there is a defence pact between C'tis and Abysia. This pact was signed long before the NAP between us. And you attacked C'tis knowingly after this information was given to you.
I advice you to give all provinces back that you took from C'tis and stop the agression immediatly.
Otherwise the Nation of Abysia will stand side by side with the Nation of C'tis against you and fullfill thier promizes given to them in the defence pact.

Abysia only has a defence pact with C'tis, so we will not end up the NAP between us when you are attacked by C'tis. But since you are the agressor against C'tis our NAP is in real danger."




In my eyes Utgard is the true agressor here. He attacked C'tis without warning. Only thing i did was to inform him again that there es a Defence Pact between C'tis and Abysia and that i will fullfill this pact if he further intends to attack and does not fall back to the borders that he had before. If he would have been attacked from C'tis there would have been no reaction at all from my side.

[Herbiedu]

BTW i did not even get a PM as a reaction on my PM. Utgard is going right to the world news.

[Catquiet]

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

This is stupid! I did not even cancel the NAP so far that is between Utgard and Abysia. So at this time the NAP is still there.

Informing me that you are not going to honor the terms of our NAP is the same as cancelling it.

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

In my eyes Utgard is the true agressor here. He attacked C'tis without warning.

The whole point of a NAP-X is to insure the attacked nation gets at least X turns warning before combat starts. C'tis refused to sign a NAP-3 with Utgard. When a larger nation on my border reserves the right to attack me without warning, I consider that to be an aggressive act and since C'tis and Utgard had no NAP treaty, I had no obligation to warn him before attacking.

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

You have been informed by the Nation of C'tis that there is a defence pact between C'tis and Abysia. This pact was signed long before the NAP between us. And you attacked C'tis knowingly after this information was given to you.

When we made the non-aggression pact, you agreed not to attack Utgard and in exchange I agreed not to attack Abysia. Utgard has kept it's side of the bargain. Peace with C'tis was not part of the NAP. You can not unilaterally add obligations on my part.

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

BTW i did not even get a PM as a reaction on my PM. Utgard is going right to the world news.

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

Utgard wrote me:
"Since C'tis refused to sign a NAP with Utgard I am moving to secure my borders. C'tis claims you will weigh in on his side of the conflict due to a defense pact between the two of you.

Are you going to honor your NAP with Utgard?"

You neglected to include the last part of the PM where I said...

If you are uncertain whether a NAP or a defense pact should take precedent, I suggest you ask in the forum. Either the game thread or the general forum would be fine.

I was willing to assume an innocent mistake when you made mutually exclusive treaties and suggested you get advice from neutral parties, instead you simply discarded the NAP with Utgard in favor of your defense pact with C'tis.

[Catquiet]

Originally Posted by Umsolfunolanis

I'd like to join as C'Tis. I have played two MP games so far but one isnt finished yet.
Also I would like to reserve a spot for a friend who's account hasn't been activated yet. He has one MP game I think and he would like to join as Abysia.

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

"You have been informed by the Nation of C'tis that there is a defence pact between C'tis and Abysia. This pact was signed long before the NAP between us.

Utgard and Abysia made their NAP on turn 6 (PM dated 7-14-11) and you had a defense pact with C'tis long before that? I know all diplomacy is allowed, but I believe that starting as a team when everyone else is solo would at least violate the spirit of the game.

[Anaconda]

should the host be delayed, a player said he/she wont be back before the weekend is over?

[Herbiedu]

Informing me that you are not going to honor the terms of our NAP is the same as cancelling it.

Just to inform everybody again ... the NAP between Utgard and Abysia is still running jet. I did not break the NAP in any means, did not attack or what so ever. I just told the Nation of Utgard to cancel his war, wich he started, with the Nation of C'tis, and fall back to the old borders, or else the Pact of defence between Abysia and C'tis will have to be fullfilled.
This was a simple warning, which can still be followed by simple means. And to ad something more, this was the 2nd warning, since the nation of C'tis told Utgard about the Pact of Defence BEFORE Utgard attacked C'tis. If he would not have attacked to "secure" his borders, nice american tactik, we all know that, the problem that we are facing now would never have come up.

[Catquiet]

Originally Posted by Herbiedu

Just to inform everybody again ... the NAP between Utgard and Abysia is still running jet. I did not break the NAP in any means, did not attack or what so ever

You massed troops at my border and told me you might attack before the terms of our NAP expire. That means I have to position troops to defend against a possible attack by you instead of sending them to fight C'tis. You have already hampered my war efforts.

You entered into an extremely long term Non-Aggression Pact with Utgard without bothering to inform us about your Defensive Pact with C'tis. The conflict between the two Pacts was easily foreseeable. The NAP between us was therefore made in bad faith.

[Herbiedu]

Oh yes you got the right to defend your borders versus other nations that you dont have a nap with and i dont?!
The troops you are talking about are in a province that has borders with 2 different players, one of them You. And they have been there ever since we met in the game and you never argued about them the hole time the Nap between us was active. You even made the Nap with me while they were in that province!
So stop telling silly things like i hampered your war efforts to all the other players here in the forum.
And just to inform everybody else, Utgard is still attacking C'tis, even after he got warned in PM by me and C'tis and in all the massages you all read in this forum, and in ingame massages aswell. He had 3 turns in the game to overthink his decision from the moment on he started to mass troops on the C'tis border. He attacked 2 turns in a row without beeing attackt. And he refuses to answer PM and ingame massages aswell.
That kind of behavior makes it impossible for me to keep up the Nap with the nation of Utgard.
Abysia is a nation of honor an will stand side by side with C'tis to defend the attackers from Utgard.
The Nap is hereby cancelled after 3 turns of warning due to the voilating acts of Utgard. There will be no further warning before hostile action is taken ingame.

I hope all the other players i am in contact with ingame and in this forum still see the nation of Abysia as an trustworthy competetor in this game. Abysia is garanteeing all of you that all agreements taken so far in the game will be fullfilled by them at any means. Any hostilities that will take place in the future will be announced in PM's and all conditions of contracts taken with you will be fullfilled to the fullest.

Please contact me via PM if you feel like commenting on anything or have something to talk about with me.

Herbiedu, leader of Abysia

[Umsolfunolanis]

Well, Utgard had been warned not to attack C'tis before Utgard attacked. The warning implied, that a counter attack by Abysia would follow.
So as I see it, all consequences following Utgards aggression had been clearly communicated.

On another note, this is war. So stop whining.