Redundancy is good, but Q Rx + 2 x Solar coll?!

jim · #1 July 29th, 2002, 04:06 AM

I am in a game w/AIs only. One of them is the 1.49 TDM Romulan Empire.

For some odd reason, the Heavy Carrier ship design has a quantum reactor and two solar collector IIIs.

Is there any reason for this?

oleg · #2 July 29th, 2002, 04:32 AM

None whatsoever. It is just very difficult to edit AI_design.txt in a way that it will be optimal during the whole span of the game.
Still, if you have SEIV Gold, try latest TDM mod pack. I think Romulans' AI has been improved.

Baron Munchausen · #3 July 29th, 2002, 04:40 AM

Yep, this is lack of flexibility in the AI design files. If we had a way to specify "this OR that, but not both", then problems like this would not occur.

jim · #4 July 29th, 2002, 05:18 AM

I noticed just now that the Romulan DNs also have thie Q + 2xSCs.

I do not have SEIV Gold. I may get it, but have not done so yet.

Understand the AI design scripting difficulties. I just had not seen any other AIs make this particular design decision. I will be looking for it now that I know it may be there in other AI designs.

oleg · #5 July 29th, 2002, 02:51 PM

It is possible to to fix this problem by rearranging abilities in the design entry. If you specify "quantum reactor" before "solar sails", AI will create ship with QR but without SS.
I tested it with SE Gold, not sure about 1.49 though.

Alpha Kodiak · #6 July 29th, 2002, 04:03 PM

I have seen QR + solar collectors in Gold as well. It is tough to make sure you don't get odd combos like that (supply storage has a way of showing up with QRs as well). When I test an AI (assuming that I am not in a hurry), I start with a high tech game and let it run through the various ship size delay periods from the AI_Settings.txt file to make sure that all of the designs make sense. Then I start a low tech game and run it all the way through base ships and starbases to make sure that all of the designs make sense. This usually takes a lot of tweaking, backing up to save positions and letting it run again after tweaking until all of the designs work right. It takes a lot of time to check for everything, and then you can be thrown off a little if the AI happens to find some techs (like sensors or combat support) earlier than expected in ruins.

Of course, if you really want to be thorough, you repeat the above process for low-tech and high-tech games without warp points to check the research and construction files for the not connected state.

I usually don't check medium-tech games with my AIs, so there may be issues that crop up on the ship designs for my AIs in medium tech games, but by the time I've done the low-tech and high-tech games through I am so tired of working with that AI that I let it go and hope the medium-tech start doesn't cause too many problems (in most cases, it shouldn't.)

The really big problem I have is not so much with the quantum reactors, but with designs losing important things like ecm, sensors or solar sails when the AI researches a new level of weapons or switches to a new weapon family that is larger than the previous level or family. All of a sudden the weapons suite takes up too much room and the stuff at the end of the design file gets cut off.

OK, so that turned into a long answer! Short answer, like others said, there is not a lot of control in the AI scripts, so when the tech for QRs becomes available, strange things can happen.

Rollo · #7 July 29th, 2002, 05:42 PM

One thing an AI modder can do is create special designs to use the QR in the late game. These have the QR as a must have ability and are placed higher in the design file.

I agree with Alpha Kodiak that it is a long process and difficult sometimes to find the correct numbers, especially when a new weapon or mount comes along. That's why I am always using different designs for one ship type for the different stages of the game, working with different minimum and maximum sizes and must have abilities. That helps a lot. And, for example, you don't have to worry about changing the early game designs when tweaking the mid game designs and so on. This is also a good way to change weapons of choice and use different tactics.

So to answer the question, these kind of designs can be prevented. It is not a lack of flexibility in the design files.

Rollo

capnq · #8 July 30th, 2002, 12:39 AM

Just today in an unmodded Gold solo game, I picked up a couple ships from a surrendered empire. One of the ships was a kamikaze destroyer armed with three Cobalt Warheads and no other weapons - plus Combat Sensors and Multiplex Tracking.

Rollo · #9 July 30th, 2002, 01:27 AM

well, that is one reason modded AI is much better. the designs in standard are just so bad at times.

Rollo

Mephisto · #10 July 30th, 2002, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
It is possible to to fix this problem by rearranging abilities in the design entry. If you specify "quantum reactor" before "solar sails", AI will create ship with QR but without SS.
I tested it with SE Gold, not sure about 1.49 though.

Thats the way to go. I haven't tested it with SCs but it will work with QRs and supply storage.