spob20 Yugoslavia corrections/suggestions

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by PvtJoker

There really are no tanks with speed less than 6, which translates to 18 km/h. The real FT-17 of course could do about 8 km/h on road, which would be speed 3 in game terms. I think the original SP and DOS SPWW2 limited the minimum speed of motor vehicles to 6, but as far as I know that limitation is no longer in place. Setting the unit sound manually may still be necessary. Perhaps Don can enlighten us. I don't have time to try that right now.

As for the NC.27, the Landships website claims that some were sold to Yugoslavia:

http://www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html#

As I've said, it would be unreasonable to have tanks slower, than the infantry in the game, so I guess there's no use to change this lower limit.

As for the Landships, they clearly mix two tanks: NC-2 (M-26/27) with Kegresse rubber tracks, which was actually used by Yugoslavia (photos Renault_NC_6 and 7 on that page) and redesigned NC-1/NC-27 with steel tracks.

Michal

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

To be precise, a Polish tankette is TK-3 (TK).

I'm interested in Polish stuff - do you know, how many were acquired, and if they were TK-3 or also TKS?

BTW: I like an artillery observer

Sorry, I missed your post for some reason.

Well the most recent book on the subject (see the original post) claims they were TKS... but then on one of the photos it's marked as a TK-3.

Local reports always simply call them "Ursus", which is why some older literature assume Croatia had Ursus Armoured Cars - but this has since been disproved.

Anyway there were around 16-20 such tankettes in Croatian service. Some sources mention 18, others say 16 + 4 for spare parts etc.

They don't appear to have seen as much action as the L3 tankettes, and none of them were captured by the partisans until near the very end of the war. Those that were captured were not used in battle anymore, but only for training.

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If Don is reading this, I missed something in the original list: Desant teams (Tankodesants). Should be available from 3/45 onwards. Armament and organization was identical to their Soviet counterparts, except that there were no PPSh-43 and RPG-43.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by zastava128

Well the most recent book on the subject (see the original post) claims they were TKS... but then on one of the photos it's marked as a TK-3.

The tankette on the photo http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/577/048ip.jpg is for sure TK-3 (also known as TK). Or, more precisely, it might be a sub-model TKF (late TK-3 with TKS suspension, as a tankette in Belgrad museum), but it's hard to say.

Michal

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

The tankette on the photo http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/577/048ip.jpg is for sure TK-3 (also known as TK). Or, more precisely, it might be a sub-model TKF (late TK-3 with TKS suspension, as a tankette in Belgrad museum), but it's hard to say.

Michal

I had a look at your website to help identify the tankettes, and from what I can tell they all seem to be either TK-3 or TKF. There are two sets of relevant photos in the book I mentioned: one shows three of them driving through a village, the other show seven (from a different unit) lined up for review. Of course, that does leave another 6-10 unaccounted for.

Nice site, btw.

Oh, and that photo of the TKS on your site - it's probably a propaganda photo as you suspected. The camo scheme is quite different from that used by all other Croatian tanks, and the "redarstvena straža" - I assume this refers to the Croatian "oružništvo" (gendarmes), not the German Ordnungspolizei - generally had worse equipment than the other branches of the armed forces. So I don't think they would have gotten the more modern tankettes when the Ustaše and Home Guard used the older model.

[Pibwl]

One more thing:
075 76.2mm AT-Gun - has a picture of PAK-40, should be 30502 IF it is L51 indeed.

However, as for all 76L51 guns (units 020, 055, 066, 075) I'd rather expect, that they are standard late war ZiS-3 M1942 L41 - weapon 60 from Soviet OOB, with range corrected to 203 (real 13.3).
Correct picture then is 14139 (used for unit 282 in Soviet oob, but very unclear) or Polish 29377 or 101.

Michal

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

One more thing:
075 76.2mm AT-Gun - has a picture of PAK-40, should be 30502 IF it is L51 indeed.

However, as for all 76L51 guns (units 020, 055, 066, 075) I'd rather expect, that they are standard late war ZiS-3 M1942 L41 - weapon 60 from Soviet OOB, with range corrected to 203 (real 13.3).
Correct picture then is 14139 (used for unit 282 in Soviet oob, but very unclear) or Polish 29377 or 101.

Michal

I already mentioned this (except the lbm issue) in an earlier post. You're right though, the only 76.2mm caliber guns of Soviet origin in the Yugoslav Army were ZiS-3 M1942 L41 and the low-velocity M1927 L16(unit 51 in Soviet OOB).

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by zastava128

I already mentioned this (except the lbm issue) in an earlier post.

I must have forgotten this.

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Now, I have a pack of proposed aircraft pictures:

- unit 271 Caproni Ca.310 shows Norwegian version with long nose (shared with Norwegian OOB). Attached Yugoslav Ca.311 can replace pm29037 - unused Norwegian Ca310 (Yugoslavia used Ca.310bis and 311, both with glazed nose)
- unit 275 S.M. 79 - current picture 16001 shows Italian markings, but is unused by Italy, and can be replaced.
- unit 277 Hawker Fury in a current oob is a British 2-seater Hind

I'm also attaching Do 17, Bf 109 and Croatian MS 406
All but MS 406 come from a page http://www.mission4today.com/index.p...rt=0&finish=-1 with plenty of photos.

[Pibwl]

To Zastava: you could try to find some photo with LMGs, because a photo of unit 157 Light MGs doesn't look like one.

And what model should be Maxim used by unit 158?

PS. when creating pictures, you can experiment with increasing contrast to obtain clearer photos.

[Pibwl]

It's a detail, but it's worth to slightly modify an icon 912 of unit 278 Ikarus IK-2 - it should have an inline engine (now it looks like PZL P-24). By the way, machine guns from wings could be removed from the icon - it had armament in nose (http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/yug...karus_ik-2.gif).

[zastava128]

To Don:

One further thing I've found out, formation 26 (truck platoon) had 4 vehicles, not 3 - at least from 5/41 on that is. Not sure if it also applied to the Royal Army.

Also perhaps add a (captured) Panzerfaust AT team from 1/45? They weren't too common, but some 200 were captured by the end of the war.
-perhaps something like spob19 unit 068?

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Pibwl:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

To Zastava: you could try to find some photo with LMGs, because a photo of unit 157 Light MGs doesn't look like one.

Can't find any usable ones unfortunately... Bizarre since it was the most common LMG but there you have it.

And what model should be Maxim used by unit 158?

It was MG 08/15, WW1 vintage.