The Future for SE IV? Does it have one?

[capnq]

Star Wars Rebellion had 3D combat, which you could pause to give orders or change camera angles.

It also had the largest swap file requirement of any game I've ever owned, 150M free on the HD.

When a programmer has been working on the same thing for a long time, switching to an entirely different task can be refreshing. I imagine that DO was a welcome break for Aaron, and actually improved his productivity on his SE-related work.

[vonManstein]

Great news!!!

Im happy to hear, that there is a SEV planned!

I will buy it!

Greetings from Stuttgart/Germany
vonManstein

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Oh yes, combat needs some sort of 'simultaneous' resolution to resolve lots of balance problems. I think that 'impulse' turn-segments would work as well as 'real time' since all that 'real time' actually means is many small steps executed very quickly so it looks like it's in motion. Why waste the extra processing time on display for animation's sake only? Just have 64 or 128 'impulses' in a turn and have ship and weapon initiative to calculate who goes when.[/QB]

I strongly support this. You probably would not need so many impulses per turn, though. The number needed is just big enough so that whatever is the fastest object in the game (some seeker, probably) moves every impulse.

The right impulse sequence could eliminate the need to worry about initiative. Every impulse could be divided into four phases - first both sides designate movement for all ships that can move "this" impulse and which the player wishes to move (not moving would require expending a movement point in place), then all movement is implemented simultaneously, then both sides designate fire for all units that can fire "this" impulse" which the player wishes to fire, then fire is resolved simultaneously.

Any ship which can move "this" impulse would be highlighted somehow during movement designation until you move it. Any left over when you click "end movement" burn their movement point in place.

Weapon recharge times would be in impulses instead of tactical turns (example, if there are 30 impulses per turn, a weapon which could fire every turn under today's system would fire every 30 impulses, satisfaction of the recharge being carried over across the turn boundry). Any ship which can fire "this" impulse (both has a weapon charged and a valid target in range) would be highlighted in some way until you designate its fire. Any left over when you click "end fire designation" would just hold fire until next impulse.

Any impulse in which nothing on either side can move or fire would just be skipped.

This would solve a host of balance issues. Then you just need a bigger tactical map and a disengagement rule. The tactical map should be sized such that the fastest posible ship could run from its starting point (whether attacking, defending or entering via warp point) in a straight line for 30 impulses without hitting the map edge. Any ship could disengage as its move in an impulse in which it can move (thereby exiting combat, ending combat if it is the Last unit on its side) if it is out of range of all enemy weapons and either (a) at least as fast as the fastest enemy ship currently in the combat, or (b) the interaction of its separation and speed to each remaining enemy ship is such that if it were to run and be chased, it could not be brought into weapon range before the end of the battle (i.e. the 30th turn). Disengaged ships would have to move out of the system map sector at their next strategic movement opportunity, and could not do anything to the planets, etc.. before moving out. You should also be able to disengage through a warp point by sitting on it and expending a movement point. During movement, ships that can disengage should be highlighted distinctively from those which can move but not disengage.

On the system map, I would apply something akin to impulse movement as well. Orders would be entered during your turn as today, but nothing would move yet. Then there would be a simultaneous impluses execution, with execution interrupted for another orders phase if any ship enters a system containing hostile forces. The "attack" order could be used for one of your ships/fleets against an enemy ship/fleet in the same system, in which case would always move toward its target every movement impulse until it caught up & initiated combat or the target split or warped out or cloaked (any of which would pause order execution to allow new orders).

[klausD]

BB,

Your "impulse system" sounds clever but a little bit too complex for my personal taste. I would love to see the normal SEIV tactical combat in SEV. Just a little bit pepped up.

with:
-better looking ships, ships with different "shapes" and user modded sizes. Why not having a dreadnought model which is 2 squares wide and 3 squares long, while another dreadnought type (of another race) is 4 squares long and just one square wide. Why not having a round "death star" model which occupies 4 or even 9 squares on the playing area.

-shooting and moving initiative depending on technology and race.

-advanced ground combat. But please no big planet surface a la fading suns. (none or just a small)

-4 different shooting angles (left, right, front, behind)

-turning and manoevre rules.

This and some other small tweaks should be enough to have a formidable time with SEV.

sorry for my bad english
klausD

PS: like many fans of SEIV (and its predecessors) I dont care alot about all these fancy 3D stuff. I like the game as it is. A revolution is not necessary when the basic system is very good.

[Lord_Shleepy]

-------------------------------------------------
Posted by oleg:

After all, you are supreme leader of star empire and shall not be bothered with aiming of every single cannon !
-------------------------------------------------

** Lord_Shleepy rouses from his slumbers and helps his gun crews arm the Super-Devastating-Disintigrato-Blater-Ray-Thing**

That's it boy's! Now wait for it...wait for it...
NOW! ***BLOOOIE***

Ahh...there's nothing like squeezing the trigger yourself and hearing the satisfying **Wazhuum** of your Massive-Planet-Tingler scorching some happless chump.

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by klausD:
BB,

Your "impulse system" sounds clever but a little bit too complex for my personal taste.

I think it is more complex to explain than it would be to use. The key thing is that every impulse some of your ships would be highlighted, you would move each one square (or hex, which is better), then click "end movement". Then the screen would be redrawn showing the post movement situation and all of your units which can fire highlighted. You order fire for those you wish, then click "end fire orders" and both sides shoot. Then next impulse. Battles would take longer, but that's what "strategic" resolution is for.

Originally posted by klausD:

-advanced ground combat. But please no big planet surface a la fading suns. (none or just a small)

Never got around to buying Faded Suns (tend to dislike games in this genre with too fixed a backstory). My ideal would be ground combat like in the old GDW Traveller-universe game Invasion Earth. I'm OK with any number of systems, though.

Originally posted by klausD:

-4 different shooting angles (left, right, front, behind)

I take it by this you mean something like firing arcs as in Star Fleet Battles? It would be cool, but would complicate ship design. You'd need rules for the impact on cost/spaces used for a mount with a bigger firing arc. It also pretty much requires a SFB-style break-up of shields into separate for each hex side, another complication to ship design. I'm all for it, but it is a big change

Originally posted by klausD:

-turning and manoevre rules.

I gave that some thought after my Last post. Here is what I would propose:

In addition to stock formations, you should be able to customize a fleet's formation by assigning particular ships to particular position numbers in the formation.

Assuming a hex grid, turn modes, and impulse movement with simultaneous execution:

Formations have the turn mode and maximum speed of their least manueverable/slowest member.

There would be three types of formation turns could be ordered:

1) Leader make a facing change but stays in the same hex. Inside (relative to the turn) units do the same. Outside (relative to the turn) units move to gain their designated station relative to the leader. On subsequent impulses, outside units move at their individual maximum speeds/turn modes (if greater than formation speed/turn mode) to get on station ASAP, while the leader and inside units hold in place. Once all the outside units are on station, the leader can move again. Inside units move or hold in place as required, using their individual maximum speeds/turn modes (if greater than formation speed/turn mode) as applicable, to get to their station on the new heading ASAP.

2) Units all change facing together and their relative stations become their new formation stations - none moves except exactly as the leader moves.

3) As in SEIV today, where every unit just tries to get to its station, regarding in the outside units getting left behind until/unless the player moves leader manually at a slow rate for them to catch up.

I'd also like to see the ability to attach fleets to fleets, so they would move as one strategically. If that is used, at the biginning of combat you should be given a screen in which to set the fleets in relation to each other on the tactical map.

[steveh11]

I suppose it's too much to ask for a proper Newtonian movement system? Proper vector arithmetic, acceleration and displacement handled, Facing changes etc?

(Actually, the facing part is optional depending on the 'ground' scale and time scale.)

Even without 3D, a 2D vector-based game would be so much better than the current battle system.

...and seeing as I like the current system too, going 'real physics' could only make it better!

Steve.

[Suicide Junkie]

I'd also like to see the ability to attach fleets to fleets, so they would move as one strategically. If that is used, at the biginning of combat you should be given a screen in which to set the fleets in relation to each other on the tactical map.

Do a multiselect with the shift-click. Your fleets will move as one for the next month of game time, just like multiselect does for individual ships.

[ August 19, 2002, 16:59: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Do a multiselect with the shift-click. Your fleets will move as one for the next month of game time, just like multiselect does for individual ships.

Except I have tested this and it doesn't work. Although I suppose I could have screwed it up somehow. Have you tested it? What ended up happening in my tests is fleet A hit the target right before Fleet B, even though they had the same movement. The Combat ended up happening seperately.

I agree though it shold work. I am hoping maybe I just did something wrong.

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Do a multiselect with the shift-click. Your fleets will move as one for the next month of game time, just like multiselect does for individual ships.[/QB]

I know, but I meant nested so that I just give orders to the outermost fleet. For example, 2nd Fleet contains BatRon 4 (consisting of 3 Battleships) and CruRon 22 (consisting of 4 heavy crUsers). For attacking through a warp point I might add a minesweeper squadron. For invading a planet I might add a squadron of troop transports. What I want is to be able to build higher level fleets out of building blocks consisting of lower level fleets.