IDF OOB project.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just walked in the door so, first off my apologies to Amit and Don I got systems crossed with missiles.

That being properly done, I think and in keeping with established practice "David's Sling" should be used in naming the Med Range. Yes it uses the "Stunner" missile, however, the "Patriot" is a Missile System not a missile it actually uses the MIM-104missile and now the newer "PAC-3 MSE.

The PATRIOT System has also since inception used the STANDARD, PAC-2 ATM, GEM-T and GEM-C missiles.
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...014patriot.pdf

This is marketing no one remembers MIM-104 but most everyone knows the PATRIOT System as the also "PATRIOT" missile.

Have a great weekend!

Regards,
Pat

[gingertanker]

Pat re read the post pls. I wrote that the weapon should be named Stunner. The unit David's Sling.

[gingertanker]

Okay so now we reach ATGMs. As with everything else this is quite a mess. The issues are not only in dates but also in formations...
I first want to draw a broad stroke of ATGM usage by IDF and please let me know if something is unclear before I move on to dealing with the units, as probably it will take your understanding and experience in building formations and units to fix at least some of the mess.

Chronology(missing some esoteric stuff that really does not matter):
In the late 50s and early 60s the IDF purchased several hundreds or maybe thousands of SS-10, Cobra and SS-11 missiles.

After 1973 it captured AT-3 missiles and bought/got TOW missiles from the USA.

In the mid/late 70s it bought/got Dragon missiles from the USA

In the early 80s it started to use locally produced missiles that will eventually be know as the SPIKE series.

Formations:

The SS-10/11 and Cobra actually belonged to the Artillery, and were organized in a special unit. This unit was later discontinued when the IDF was disappointed with the performance of early ATGMs, but not before it saw some fighting in 1967. One could say this unit was the foundation of the "Orev" companies.

Following the impressive performance of Arab and specifically Egyptian ATGMs in the 1973 war, the IDF reorganized ATGM companies. Equipped with Sagger but mainly TOW missiles, eventually each infantry brigade (standing and reserve) would get such a company. These were semi-elite troops used not only in the AT role but also as recce elements when needed.

Some time after that, in the mid-late 70s the Dragon missile started arriving. As it was a short range missile it was adopted into the battalion level, in the support/weapons company level. Because the TOW was named "Orev" (raven), the units were named Orev Company.

In the early 80s when the first early SPIKEs were online, they were organized into a unit in the artillery core (what is old is new again, eh?).

So in the early or mid 80s we see the hierarchy of IDF AT/ATGMs as it basically is to today:
Level 1 : RPGs/LAWs at the squad and platoon level of rifle companies.
Level 2 : Short range ATGM (Dragon) platoon at in the battalion weapons company.
Level 3 : Long range ATGM (TOW) company on 4WD vehicles or APCs at the brigade
level 4 : NLOS ATGM unit as a strategic asset.

Current weapons:
Level 1 was covered previously.
Level 2: The Dragon was replaced by the SPIKE MR
Level 3: The TOW was replaced by the SPIKE LR or ER
Level 4: SPIKE NLOS remains, although upgraded

I just wanted to make this pre-post to make sure we have all the general frame before we go forward.

[DRG]

The branch of the service is really irrelevant for game purposes so they will not be changed as to where they are offered in the game ( as an infantry units Vs Artillery ). They are either "AT" or "ATGM" depending mainly on if they are guided or not and the date they go in and out of service depends on if one day all were removed and replaced by a new type or the new one was phased in gradually.

Don't expect to match game reality and RL reality exactly. You can post your suggestions and I will determine how they will best be integrated into the game ..or not

[gingertanker]

Oh I am not trying to match anything I am merely setting the stage for me to go deeper into it. The reason I am detailing where the different systems were used is in case it affects formations in some way. For instance if Dragon is only available to para weapons companies but should in fact be available to other weapon companies.

Matching reality is impossible.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by gingertanker

Unit 138 Shipon is quite a challenge. The Shipon is indeed around from 2000 or 2003, depending who you ask...But it's not serving like the LAW or RPG-7. It is fielded by special forces. It's use in the OOB as a Inf-AT unit is problematic. Is there some solution you can think of? It is also worth mentioning that the weapon itself (Weapon 19) has weird stats. For one thing Shipon is a tandem warhead rocket but it is not classed like that. Also it's accuracy is identical to the RPG-7 in the Israeli OOB, but really it should be far higher. The SMAW in the US OOB is based on the B-300 like the Shipon, and is a cousin of Shipon. It has 10 accuracy in game while Shipon has 5...Shipon, it is worth noting, has a LRF and digital FCS...
I am not suggesting anything just sharing the info waiting for replies.

In my scenario, "I Bring the Sword" the shipon is fielded. Now, am I correct that the SMAW from OOB12 or the USMC (OOB13) variant maybe substituted for the Shipon?

[Suhiir]

Till the recent improvements (laser sight, RF, etc.) the SMAW used a spotter round (9mm) unlike the Shipon, thus was pretty accurate as you could be sure the SMAW would hit where the spotter round did.

[gingertanker]

still here just busy weeks. be back to reply in 6 days or so.

[gingertanker]

We will be back on track soon but it seems I made a mistake.

I said no Spike on the Namer and Eitan unmanned turret.

Well:
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/articl...piNS9HqtJ7pPmA

So yeah....

[DRG]

Nifty little set up and it would appear that this turret will be used on both the Namer IFV and the Eitan IFV