this is a thread to attract SE4 forumers to the first Dungeon Oddessy roleplay thread

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
new proposal:no evil or good races, no supeirer or inferior races. in other words, no 'standard' elves or orcs, etc.

That was posted for discussion, correct?

It doesn't strike me as meshing well with the option for sentient animals and Minotaurs already encountered; sure, I'd go along with the no inherently evil nor inherently good races, considering that "good" or "evil" is often (but not always) a judgement based on what nation the one you have allegiance towards is currently/recently/soon to be at war with, or the other nation's economic/technological standing; goblins could simply be considered evil because their current ruling class are warmongerers, or because their economy crashed and many turn to thievery out of desperation, or because they are new to the region and haven't figured out which local vegetable fibers are good for weaving, and so wear lots of animal skins. Individually, each person makes their own choices.

As for attributes, superior and inferior are either context based (specific attribute(s) and their relation(s) to specific task(s)) or opinion based. Different races are ... different. That doesn't make one better or worse than another; elves may be, on average, more agile, but they are also, on average, physically weaker; dwarves may be, on average, physically stronger, but they are also, on average, less agile. Both developed societies, so both have the full capability to do anything that is necessary to build and maintain a society. Which is better depends on the situation. Such Dwarves would beat such Elves in tunnels; such Elves would beat such Dwarves in a forest; both due to the terrain being suitable to their abilities.

Further, one being stronger of weaker, more or less agile than the other only addresses averages; an exceptionally strong Elf may well be stronger than most Dwarves, and an exceptionally agile Dwarf may well be more agile than most Elves; it's the whole bell-curve thing.

Also, there are no real standard races besides humans (although that is probably why you used the quotes....); virtually every fiction book/mythos/tradition/RPG defines their own variants of each. In one, Elves might be slightly taller than humans; in another, slightly shorter. In still another, they may be very short (couple of feet) or tiny (height measured in inches, sometimes less) - I've read books with all four Versions (some in the same book!), as well as comperable variations for other types, one book that turned the short weak elf concept on its head, making big strong elves. RPG's usually define the different types of races as having their own strengths and weaknesses that balance out on the whole with the others. Sometimes there is an imbalance, but this is usually balanced with some kind of penalty (reduced starting EXP, or a greater EXP cost per level, special weaknesses, social stigmas, et cetera - mind you, these are usually only appropriet when you have specific numbers such as EXP or assigned stats to play with, which isn't the case here).

Morover, most such differences could be attributed to culture; dwarves distrust magic and rely on their own senses, so magic doesn't like them, which gives them some measure of immunity to spells cast directly on them, but also impairs their ability to cast spells (alternately, they could be skilled enchanters, making dwarven artifacts of reknown). Elves are good with the bow because it is the weapon most commonly used in their society, due to hunting requirements, perhaps (sort of like how virtually every US citizen knows how to drive a car; it's mostly because almost everyone has one; a cultural thing). Culture of this type even happens on modern Earth. Japan-based instruction focuses strongly on memorization, so first-generation Japanese immigrants often have better memories than US born people. Does this mean people of Japanese decent are inherently better at memorization? Probably not - it's most likely just a cultural difference; they are good at what they have been made to do all through school because they have a lot of practice at it.

On the plus side, different races can add text and atmosphere to the conversation; it might come up that goblins were once elves, but became as they now are due to some warlords forcing them out of their forests and deep into mountain caves for several generations. Likewise, a character whom many NPC's react well/badly towards on sight because of their pointed ears/short stature/green skin/whatever could also add character development, text, and atmosphere.

Mind you, you don't want to saddle someone else's character with any of this type of thing; if Sue's elves don't have the same mythos as Johnny's, that's fine - they are different variants (wood elves and mountain elves, perhaps; wood elves might be commonly viewed as thieves while mountain elves are considered paragons of virtue or vice-versa; I'm inclined to leave it up to the person playing the PC for the details of the specific variant they are playing). I have no objection to allowing non-human races for entering PC's. NPC's may be a different story, however.