OT - US Presidential Candiates Arrested!

[Krsqk]

Gandalf Parker said:
Im thinking maybe you werent around then from that. Vietnam wasnt a war you did because you thought war was fine. There was a draft on. You were pretty much GOING to go to war when your country called you. Either that or leave the country and lose your citizenship. There were various sidestepping actions you could work real hard to do but of course it wouldnt work if everyone did it so go to vietnam or go to some other country was pretty much the choice for us.

I understand the draft, but I'm not talking about his participation in Vietnam. I'm talking about his apparent desire to depict himself as the hero in Vietnam. The way it was done, it looks like he used the situation of the war as long as it was useful to him (the films), then got back and decided his films wouldn't be worth as much as the anti-war crowd. I realize there were plenty of people in combat who disagreed with the whole thing, but most of them weren't playing war in front of cameras in their spare time.

I guess I can see how that might be confusing. All I can say is that its not confusing at all to me. I was, and am still proud of being a VietVet. Instead of ducking out of the country I plowed right in and volunteered. On the other hand Im not proud of that war, or what was done there by many. Im not glad that the US fought it.

And technically, unless a military man specifically signed a secrecy statement about a particular mission, then it IS his military duty to speak up about atrocities when he returns.

But you never took part in any of what Kerry and VVAW were accusing the US of. Kerry said he did--and now says he's proud of his service. That doesn't seem to match up to me, unless he has an easier time dropping off to sleep at night than I do.

alarik:

The statement most quoted seems to come from an appearance by Kerry on Meet the Press on April 18, 1971:

John Kerry said:
There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

Links would include http://hnn.us/articles/3552.html and www.wintersoldier.com (redirects to another site).

And, although I must reserve comment on it since I haven't checked it out yet, I guess I should post this link in case anyone hasn't heard of it yet: www.stolenhonor.com.

To briefly respond to the rest of what you said:
- I think the films don't necessarily show that he supported the war, but they do show that he thought it was a good enough opportunity to promote himself. My reply to GP would go here, too.

- Whether or not he was allowed to speak up about atrocities while in Vietnam, he did not need to take part in them. Note that I am not saying that would have been the easy route--it's not easy under any circumstances to stand up to a superior. But what would have happened? His CO can't just shoot him on the spot. Throw him in the brig? Court-martial him? Any retaliation against him would have made it more likely for the truth to come out. The fact that he didn't is admittedly less of a reflection on him than on the moral fiber of the average American of the time (and of this time, truth be told). As for reporting atrocities causing problems among one's unit, what about continually being subjected to seeing them committed, or even being ordered to? It seems that would be worse for morale than getting bad COs or non-coms removed.

And just as a completely unrelated side note, I found it interesting that a young F. Lee Bailey was involved in the trials for My Lai 4--for the defense. Always new tidbits of information out there that I never knew.