Operational Discussion

[Charles22]

P1 - Yes, a lot of mistakes don't add add to changing the victory level, but they still cost points overall, somethign I'm a stickler for.

P2 - Alright

P3 - You would rather air go for a loaded HT than a tank? DO you mean a tank with riders, or just a tank? I presume you mean just a tank. I presume I would too, but of AA defense is what got us to that point, so recall you were the one who dedicates the majority of your SPAA to infantry. I was the one who wa telling you that air is not too interested in the infantry, therefore you see the need but not executing it, unless, that is, you wish to start more protecting that armor now.

Would it be accuarate to say, that you would flank with your advancing infantry the sides of the board, then protect them with SPAA, thinking you were better protecting not only tanks but infantry better that way? Could be, but do recall that an SPAA, or AA any on the map, that is onan edge is having it's arc of fire severely limited. It is my opinion that not only is it less gamey, but it is also more protective, but by your earlier description of them on the defense, persuming no air, you certainly weren't flank happy in that case, but probably mis-read this idea of protecting the whole map by cramming the advancing flanks.

Tell me, for all you have seen of the SP series, wouldn't you say that the AI does far better with his aerial support than does the human, that he manages to destroy more frequently the AFV's for example?

From my experience, enemy air is none too concerned about the front line unles sit be a hill loaded with AFV's. He is more interested in the units just behind the front. You seem to think that an HT for what little they may be attacked, getting attacked with loaded infantry isn't worth the infantry being sfaer on foot and infantry and HT both surviving. I say both surviving because I do not expect the AI will target the unladen HT, but as we know, it's somewhat academic anyway, consdiering how the Ai air just loves the AFV's. There probably isn't a strike that goes by where if he hasn't spotted an AFV beforehand, he spots it in flight.

So having said all of that, I am curious as to what all this speed gains you. Are you on some sort of reduce the turns kick to increase difficulty? If we got rewards for exiting units, I would be more interested in a more mobile force, or at least using what I have in a more mobile way. Do you think armies load up onto HT's because speed is so important (WWII armies I mean) that under imminent threat of air strikes they just keep driving along? I don't see my score increasing by speed, more likely lessening for the more risks, nor do I see it influencing the experience generated. Oh, now I recall, your fear of AI arti. Yes, I fear your huge force has brought part of that on, and since I imagine your map is smaller than mine (I don't think you have ever stated the size precisely) the AI has more chance to hit you, so you think you can move away from it a lot, but I think ratio-wise, unless I do some miracles with my counter-batterying and movement, that you suffer from it much more than I do. Or to be more precise, you used to. It seems a simple conclusion to reach, as arti nugs me so little, however I'm adjusting to it, that when I'm attacking anyway, even my foot infantry is often staying ahead of it, or if it doesn't the damage is none too great. If I left my infantry in anything open-topped (not saying you do this specifically) when it was raining down, if I were thinking defeat was slowing down for it, and got hit by it, then yes, I would fear it all the more, but it seems your adjustment period to more mobility came because you are enjoying less harassment from arti for that increased mobility.

I think after you made the adjustment, not before, but after you got the sense of the AI arti pulse; the same as I got without changing much of anything. So knowing the pulse, and using mobility more, who's to say just which is more important. I would guess knowing the pulse myself. You see, if bombardment falls at your heels all the time (hitting behind your advance to very little or no effect), does it matter if it's a couple more hexes from your heels? OTOH, our forces are very different in size and map. I tell you that arti is not much of a problem over here by knowing when to move and how much (and a few more minor factors), and in what terrain of course, but your AI is probably so limited and your map so small, with a much higher density of units, that you have to almost run around to avoid it. I realize I can't possibly be entirely accurate there, but we are talking about two very different beasts here, and I think it's time we realized that we aren't facing the same things, even allowing how we're playing in different years.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're just bored with marching any foot units to any degre, and we know you think it's just way too easy using tank riders. So let me put you slightly on the spot here, using your own concern for 'realism' shall we call it, in the form of not using riders because they don't suffer enough whenn hit, to say, have you ever known a WWII formation that was ever as mobile as yours? I realize it's not particularly a good idea to always base our force as some national representative, like we can't have more PZIVH's than Panthers (even though after the Panthers got more fully produced the last two years plus, they were actually out-pacing PZIV production), but I'm not so sure any force was as mobile as yours. If you still want to be that way that's fine, but it may be denying you of some of the experiences any real Gerry formation had to worry about, but I'm appealing to your sense of realism here, and other than seemingly being able to dodge more arti, something to consider certainly, I see no benefit. I suppose it's your PBEM that has done this and you adapt one technique to fit all. All I can tell you, is you can become a lot less mobile on my map, with the size of my force, and still have it not rip you to shreds, providing you're playing the AI. You get a whole lot more arti for your huge amount of units on a smaller map, and you can get some wacky arti idea from PBEM'ers, or at least much more effective use therein. That must be it. Take my last battle for instance meeting with poland, though it was one of my mroe exceptional decisives, and that is that I lost only 65 men and three AFV's, and 1 Storch. Does that sound like arti problems to you? Other than the sniper, he didn't wipe out even one squad of my infantry. Well you can probably nevermind this, I'm probably only aggravating you, but I don't mean to. I just want to see what's making you tick. I already got the idea of the airborne scouts, that might prove useful should I think it doesn't give me too much of an advantage (note how the AI will never make air drops). If I can do that as what I deem as too successfully, with too much impact, then I will have to cut back on it or eliminate it, but of course I haven't tried it yet.

P4 - Arti observers are not only 4X weaker than scouts in the GE sense, but they're usually armed worse, if that's possible. Why would I front line them? Unlike scouts are primarily for spotting a front, the FOO is for directing bombardment at a quicker rate, uusally my arti is accuraye enough through them, that not only are they not seeing the targeted area, but they are also moving in some cases. Spotting through anything else just takes way too long fo rme, and I think the accuarcy is good enough, especially since their most primary task is to direct against any onboard arti I may find in the rear. Yes, I do use him in core.

P5 - no, I wasn't talking about some puny pnzrfst team, I was referring to an entire "full" squad of infantry when I made that comment of bettering scouts on a flank.

P6 - You said you stop the scout after hitting that 2 hexes away, okay. And you also said you "peel back". That's what I was talking about, not you moving forward with the scout anymore. You still haven't necessarily answered the question. You seem to have the practice of stopping for the turn at that point, and then the next turn even moving within one possibly. But while saying you stop within two may not be comclusive, ebcause if indeed you ever do peel back in that situation, there is no statement as to if that was mistaken words on your part, thereby you never peel back (unlikely) or that you might be able to move again, but only backwards on the same turn without being spotted. But of course our scouts are probably extermely different as I'm just starting out with them; too clumsy with them or not, so I can't expect anything like what you say you're doing just yet.

Well yeah I realize they would be spotted with full movement, but I was talking about the 2 hexes away, being the 1st movement, the peel back of one hex being the 2nd of the same turn (or maybe the next turn). I guess it's somewhat immaterial when I realize now you're on an entirely diffent plane of experience. the only hope was that yours went that far and weren't any better than the early ones I have.

P last - Yes, I know all that basic stuff. Virtuallt all functions get better with experience. Hmmm, speaking of which, I don't recall, I might had just forh=got, anybody telling me my conclusion that ammo trucks don't dish out ammo more quickly with more experience.

Hmm, bring up another point. Needless to say everything isn't improved by experience, as probalt infantry doesn' take less losses to bombardmnet through exp, though it's possible IRL. What about road speed? How many times do you tell the AFV to go on to the full amount the movement arc specifies om a road, and it ends up with some funky bonus hex or two beyond that limit once it gets there? I'm curious if more exp could possibly make that much more likely.