Pike vs Cavalry

[Dedas]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

I don't dispute the validity of your point Dedas, but I think you overstate it.

Repel is not widely used as a tactic for a reason.

Numbers will beat it.
Equal length weapons defeats it. Trampling defeats it. Missiles defeat it.

Not to mention the usual other suspects.

I understand you but my humble (and annoying) opinion is that repel is much better than people give it credit for. I have done a lot of tests over the years and found out that repel gives a subtle (for the eye) but very effective edge over your enemy in two different ways. Those ways are to repel and to not be repelled as opposed to not repel and to be repelled. There is a third option and that is no repel in effect in the event of equal length.

To meet your arguments:
As for numbers "beating" it that is just not true. In the event of repelling an attack you get normal to hit for the first, -2 to the second, -4 to the third etc. With high attack you could repel several blows to you with high probability. With low attack you could repel several attacks as well but it is not so likely after a few. But this is the same principle applied when you attack someone, it gets easier for every blow. So what would you rather have when you are attacked by a big number of enemies?

1. The same length weapon: no repel in effect but you get -2 defence for every attack made to you.

Summary: You get one rapidly fading chance to defend yourself from every attack.

2. Shorter weapon: no repel in effect but you get -2 defence for every attack made to you. When you attack however the enemy gets to repel. When attacking the enemy gets one rapidly fading chance to defend itself.

Summary: You get one rapidly fading chance to defend yourself from every attack. When attacking the enemy gets two rapidly fading chances to defend itself.

3. Longer weapon: you get to repel with -2 to your attack when trying achieve repel. You get -2 defence for every attack made to you.

Summary: You get two rapidly fading chances to defend yourself from every attack. The enemy gets one rapidly fading chance to defend itself.

The right answer is of course 3.

In addition, I don't see the connections between choosing numbers over repel. It is all a matter of what you meet. If the enemy comes equipped with axes (length 1) use broad swords (length 2) and you will have a clear edge as seen above. If they come with battle axes (length 3) use spears (length 4) and so on. Oh, and if they come with pikes (length 6) you either want to come with pikes as well (alternative 1) or use missile units. Just try to avoid alternative 2, that is bad in every way for you. And if you have bigger numbers than your enemy you might even it out, but there is nothing stopping your enemy to field the same amount of troops as you (or more) and beat you more efficiently (lower losses/cost). Intel is key here.

As for trampling. Yes, but that is true in any case, shields won't help you here, only high natural defence, size and HP.

Missile units. You can use a shield and still have a longer weapon than your enemy. In the case of the pike, no. But I'm not debating pikes over shields or something silly like that. Everything has its place.

Thank you for discussing with me.