Mod: Cinggis Qayan, Wrath of the Khans 3 eras -- Update 6

[kennydicke]

Globu

Thanks! Yes, I love those minis by Kev White. He's unbelievable. I bought, like, 120 of the Celtos ones during a sort of binge five years ago.

Is he famous? I don't know the names of those who model minis. I've also had similar experiences with 40k models, most recently Orks. (I would absolutely love a greenskin mod!)

Well, if it looks like hair at this scale, we can treat it as such. I'll see what I can do.

It may just be me, does anyone else think it looks like blonde hair? If not, it's fine as is. And I'm still thinking servant of manzan.

Very interesting on the bows -- especially that African one. Hey, I've seen posts like "Machaka could use some love..." -- may want to release that puppy.

I hadn't read that, but it's not as if I've read every post. All I've seen is trash-talk for my favorite national theme (except for one that you can probably guess). My artwork is so atrocious (by comparison, the javelin launcher is grade-A work) that I would need a sprites for them as well! And I would rather anyone wanting to help out focus on the other mod nation's that still need polishing. Though if someone who wanted to, made a sprite I could stomach (I quit using mine because I couldn't take it anymore) I would gladly take a look at 'Machaka, A Lesson in Balance;' the lesson of course being me learning to make a mod, edit the nationals, and, importantly, retain balance (which I don't think I did, I was rocking Ashdod's world last time I played SP with them, last year sometime). Also, if I could find out how to edit a nation, and not completely replace them, that would be real incentive. If memory serves, I tried a #copynation (or something) and couldn't get the changes to work. This was over a year ago.

Well, pricing can likely make an important distinction there -- in my own play I often find it fairly wasteful to splurge for cavalry archers when regular ones will do the job fine.

Whereas, I generally make as many cavalry archers as possible, and just use regular to supplement PD (unless I have to use them, or have a Gateway capable leader with longbowmen).

But aside from that, they can make for terrifying PD, if that is to be a national strength. Although given the offensive power level so far, these archers in PD may be a bit much -- but once it's balanced better, it can be a good fit. (That could also be remedied by a second class of cheaper foot archers using lesser bows, with these being used for PD instead.)

Once again, I tried to emphasize the fact that once the Mongols had captured a town/area, they didn't lose it unless they let you take it. (Generally, for strategic reasons.) Although, they already have too many strengths, from what I've gathered. I really like the idea of PD-only archers (another part of my Machaka mod was "Hunters," basically they were PD-only militia with bows (think I used lion tribe sprites).

As for the thematic element, at least to me, 14-damage long-range bows are pretty impressive. And now, coming to think of it, in light of the flaming arrows problem and what you've said about the Mongols' recurve bows, I don't think it would be inappropriate at all to use the stock Great Bow of Hinnom's EA archers. And that would make them fearsome and distinctive in itself.

If others like this idea, I could go for it. I would prefer to use a #newweapon, but vanilla weapons have their uses (and don't take ID slots). I disabled #armorpiercing at this point, but it would be my preference to add it back. I'm trying to go by popular consensus. If their can be such a thing for a new mod.

If you do go with armor piercing, though, it would seem appropriate to keep the damage down. It would make them a bit underwhelming against un-/lightly-armored targets, but then they're mostly dead meat anyway. It still seems like a tough fit, though, balance-wise, and will make them horrific in the early game.

I had hoped for a strong early-mid-game, with an underpowered late-game. Kind of matching the fast rise, fairly lengthy status quo, and ultimately quick fall at the end (as both the Huns and Mongols are known for). Strong early game is a natch. It would probably be best for an average-strong mid-game and a fairly weak late-game. Suggestions anyone?

I really like the use of Recurve in the name, since that gives the most descriptive information and is least abstract, giving something for the imagination to chew on. That may just be me though.

I merely named it a greatbow as a way for me to remember that was the basis of the weapon when I first made it. I prefer recurve myself, and it is the most accurate short name. (Mongol-style Hunnic Recurve, being more accurate still, but too long for my tastes.

As for giving the MP Glory map the same treatment... Not so sure about it. The larger one was a monster and took way more time than I expected. (I seem to like using "monster" and "monstrous" today -- I really hardly ever use those words.) Also, I'm working on a 650-province, meticulously tidied-up random-gen map that I hope to release some day. So probably not on the small Glory map.

'Tis a shame, 'tis a shame indeed. No biggie, though. I will just redo my own using the newest version. (That is, if the smaller map is even different now.)

Now, all that said, here are some preliminary samples of what I'm dubbing Mongol archers. They're not finalized, and still need some detail work (stray pixels, edges, and so forth), not to mention base sprites (these are pretty clearly action sprites). Details like colors and bow size can be changed easily, as shown here.

I like them myself. If nobody has problems with them, I'd like two. One for PD-only, one for the recruits; if you could make one have a slightly longer bow that would be cool, but not important. (Oh, looks like you already did!) If you can make them look like scale-type armor, great!; if not, I don't care too much. If you can add a buckler (a smaller shield that could generally be worn while firing a bow) that would be awesome. And pinball completes the scene... oops, I meant a small axe on a belt loop. If you don't want to take the time, cool. You've done more than I expected already. And I'm thoroughly impressed if you just whipped those up! (Still impressed if you didn't; they aren't my usual stick figures, that's fo' sho'!)
Edit: Forgot to mention that I like the tan guy and the dark-red/brown guy. But do the ones you find easiest to edit!

Let me know if you'd like me to proceed with these guys.

In essence, yes. Unless someone else really hates them for some logical reason, they'll fit nicely.


Thanks

Oh, and to whomever didn't like them having three survivals. The Altaic region tribes lived in a vast area, that was all at once mountainous, forested and a true wasteland (especially the Gobi Desert). I felt it was thematic for this and a couple other reasons. First, they Mongols would travel with four to five horses to each man/woman warrior; if supplies ran short they would let blood from the jugular of a horse and drink the blood (excellent nourishment, I'm told), allowing them to have a continuous supply a combination food/drink that was replenishable (my brother wanted me to give each unit a supply bonus, but I thought the survivals worked better for other reasons). Second, the heaviest factor in the Mongol dominance was not superior equipment (this was a close second), not their superior tactics (which was uncommonly good for a less *civilized* race, but probably only third; look up 'Subutai' for a more thorough example), but was the fact that their cavalry could move at lightning speeds (especially compared to larger, heavier European horses and soldiers) and that their foot troops were equally as fast relative to the less vigorous European counterparts (including the *barbarian* tribes). AP, mapmove and survival helped me to simulate speed. I will tone them down for balance. But I do feel it's thematic. I appreciate your thoughts, understand where your coming from, and am looking for a way to mitigate this with their other all too evident strengths!

Danke Schoen!