Carriers

[Kiwikkiwik]

According to the Osprey New Vanguard book universal carrier 1936-48.
Bren carriers should have a carrying capacity of 2 not 6 and a crew of 1 not 2.
Universal carrier Mk I have a carry capacity of or 2 not 6, and a crew of 1 not 2.
Universal carrier Mk II have a carry capacity of or 3 not 6, and a crew of 1 not 2.
There wass no space for extra men!
Universal Mk I could carry one extra man in the second rear compartment if their was nothing in it, but had a total complement of 3 men same as the Bren carrier wich it replaced.
http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/armour.23819/
The bigger T16, Loyd and Windsor carriers were largely if not completely used as gun tractors or cargo carriers.

The book lists the differences between the Universal carrier Mark I and Mark II, it says The Mark II has a crew of 4, two in the front and two in the rear of the Hull, one either side.
http://www.perthregiment.org/rperth13.html Shows the TOE/OOB and of a carrier platoon and the tactical deployment of a carrier section. 4 men in total per carrier.
A google seach of -universal carrier layout- shows a lot of the interior space is taken up by various equipment.


Changes needed to conform to this;
Great Britian OOB
The scout carrier was for assault and meant to operate with the 3 men inside, having a front mounted AT gun and centrally mounted Bren, it takes all 3 crew to drive and operate the 2 weapons so this vehicle should have a crew of 3 and carry capacity of 0.
Using Bren or universal carriers Mk I;
Formation 045, Carrier section should have 2 AT rifle teams removed and one Mech support removed. Only 1 AT rifle was carried in each carrier section of 3 vehicles.
Formation 367, Carrier patrol should have one patrol removed and the remaining two patrols changed from 4 to 2 men.
Formation 139 Tnk Regt HQ Sqn could have the Bren carriers removed as a choice, as far as I can find out they only used the scout carrier, the games unit 284 boys carrier.
Also as far as I can find out, unit 284 boys carrier shouldnt be offered in formations 045 367 and 330 unless placed in as the third AT rifle armed carrier in the carrier section and then the AT rifle team could be removed.
Formation 330 mech patrol uses unit 453 Bren carrier this unit has 2 Bren guns, but very likely had only one Bren gun wich could be mounted in the front or on the AA mount mid vehicle, as a 3 man vehicle there is not enough crew to service two Bren guns, drive and have a dismountable team. The carried mech support squad and Heavy mech infantry should be 2 man teams not 3 and 4 man teams.
In 1942 the universal carrier MK II arrives wich has 4 seats.
To cover the Bren, scout and universal carrier formations over the entire war, formations 045 and 367 could be used until 1942/43 and then discontinued and formation 330 begun in 1942. Formation 330 would then have the right number of men in the mech support squad and only one extra man in the Heavy mech infantry team.

The book above says this about experiments testing the mounting of a PIAT in a carrier.
-Extended trials revealed that ... it was impossible to keep the projectile in place. It became dislodged and potentially lethal at the first bump.-
If the PIAT is to be loaded just prior to action then cocking the weapon reqired the user to stand upright, or sit with his legs straight requiring him to most likely leave the vehicle entirely.
So maybe unit 456 PIAT carrier should be replaced with Bren carrier carrying a PIAT team?

Unit 132 HMG carrier should probably have a carry capacity of 0, crew 4
Unit 110 carrier OP was unarmed it has a Bren gun in the game. The port was changed to support binoculars instead of a Bren.
Unit 051 loyd carrier was unarmed it has a Bren gun in the game. Loyd carrier has room for 7-8 possibly 10 not 12 people. It was mainly used for towing guns etc, rarely if ever as an armoured personal carrier. Crew should be 1
Unit 289 mortar carrier, I cant find any evidence that this vehicle had a Bren gun. Bren maybe should be removed.

Canadian OOB
Formation 098 carrier platoon is good. The Bren carriers carrying the 3 inch mortars should have the Bren guns removed.
Formation 330 Mech patrol is good if it starts in 42/43 (that is has 4 seat universal mkIIs instead of earlier 3 seaters) and moves from a 4 to a 3 man mech support squad.
Formation 170 206 233 inf recce sqdn, recce sqdn, road patrol should have the Bren carriers? removed as a utility vehicle as they cant carry 5 men plus crew. Or change the passenger squads from 5 to 2 men, crew from 2 to 1.
Unit 110 Carrier OP should be unarmed.
Unit 132 HMG carrier should have vickers gun only, the Bren gun should be removed. carry capacity of 0, crew 4
Unit 294 Gun carrier, loyd carrier? shouldnt have a Bren MG. Carry capacity of 7-8 not 10. Crew should be 1
Unit 110/132 should have carry capacity of 0, unit 133/284/363 should have a carry capacity of 2, crew of 1.
Unit 051 Universal? carrier mk II has wrong name or picture, picture is Loyd, carry capacity is 10 could be 7-8. If its a Bren carrier Mk II Carry capacity should be 3.
All carriers that carry a dismountable squad should have a crew of 1 not 2

Australian/New Zealand OOB
Formation 081/86 carrier platoon, carrier section, scout/patrol should be 2 men not 4, or 3 men instead of 4 for the mk II after 42. crew 1.
Pair of 81mm mortars should be removed as an alternative to the 2 inch mortar.
Formation 330 Mech patrol, As this unit starts in 11/42 it can have the 4 seater Bren carrier MK II, so its good except for Mech patrol and LMG group should be 3 not 4 man teams.
Unit 132 Carrier HMG should have carry capacity of 0 not 2. Bren gun should be removed, crew 4
Unit 150 attack carrier never saw action.
Unit 110 carrier AOP doesnt have a Bren gun.
Unit 133 Bren carrier shouldnt have 2 Bren just one. If two carry capacity 0 crew 3.
Unit 134 Bren carrier if this is the carrier where the Australians mounted a vickers MG in the front instead of the Bren the Vickers should have a range of 10 same as british OOBs unit 865, weapon 238 vickers BMG with the same configuration. The Bren BMG should then be changed to .303 Bren MG. Carry capacity 0 crew 3.
Unit 051 should have carry capacity 7-8 maybe 10 not 12
Unit 225 boys carrier, The scout carrier was for assault and meant to operate with the 3 men inside, hence the front mounted AT gun and centrally mounted Bren, it takes all 3 crew to drive and operate the 2 weapons so this vehicle could have a crew of 3 and carry capacity of 0.

Poland
Formation 297 Mech scout sqdn is good.
Formation 280 Inf Support Co should have the Bren carriers replaced with Loyd carriers.
Unit 122 carrier AOP shouldnt have a Bren gun
Unit 364 Carrier HMG should have carry capacity of 0 not 2. Bren gun should be removed, crew 4
Unit 447 The scout carrier was for assault and meant to operate with the 3 men inside, hence the front mounted AT gun and centrally mounted Bren, it takes all 3 crew to drive and operate the 2 weapons so this vehicle should have a crew of 3 and carry capacity of 0.
Unit 494 loyd carrier should have carrying capacity of 7-8 maybe 10 not 12. Crew should be 1

France
Formation 376 Eclair Mot Patrol, Eclaireurs should be 2 men not 4, or 3 after 42 if using the universal carrier Mk II
Unit 341 Loyd carrier should have Bren gun removed. Should have carrying capacity of 7-8 maybe 10 not 12. Crew should be 1

Soviet Union
Unit 344 Boys carrier should have carry capacity of 0 not 6. Crew of 3
Unit 467 Bren carrier should have carry capacity of 2 not 6, or 3 after 42 if using the universal carrier Mk II, crew of 1.

Germany
Unit 610 Trager Bren 731 should have a carry capacity of 2 not 6, crew of 1.
Unit 612 PzJ Bren(e) Rkt could have a carry capacity of 0. crew of 4. Should have a MG 34 or MG 42.
https://books.google.com.au/books?id...20Bren&f=false

Belguim
Formation 19 Mortar sec/M Bren carriers, this formation should have Bren guns removed from the Bren carriers they carried thr mortar and shells instead.
Fornmation 330 Mech patrol is good but overall has one extra Bren gun. 5 instead of 4.
Formations 331 332 use Formation 330 Mech patrol.
units 014, 363 should have crew 1 carry capacity 3 if MK II universal, carried teams already OK.

Italy
Units 768 and 769 should have Carrying capacity of 3 crew 1.

Nationalist China
Unit 004's vickers gun should have a range of 10 not 30 to conform with Great Britian OOB.
Unit 21 and 270 Vickers carrier should have carry capacity 0 crew 4. Start date should be about 10/43 not 34. Maybe this is meant to be unit 004?
Formation 71 Armoured Recce should have one of scout, scout team, carrier team reduced to 2 or 3 men and unit 12 Bren carrier should have carry capacity reduced from 6 to 3 (Mk II) or 6 to 2 if its a Bren or Universal MkI. Crew of 1 not 2.
Could not find formation 83?
Formation Carrier patrol should have scout, scout team, carrier team reduced to 2 or 3 men. crew of 1 not 2. unit 12 Bren carrier should have carry capacity reduced from 6 to 3 (Mk II) or 6 to 2 if its a Bren or Universal MkI. Crew of 1 not 2.

Unit 133, 802 should have a carry capacity of 2 (Universal Mk I and earlier) or 3 ( Universal MK II) not 6 and crew of 1 not 2.

Thailand got 118 carriers in 1944 these don't appear in the Thai OOB.

It is possible Bren carriers and even universal carriers were unable to tow anything before 1944. The Stacy towing attacment was only fitted to universal carriers from 1944 onwards.
Bren ammo carriers have a carrying capacity of 0 because they are full. The other special versions are also full, with vickers ammo, mortar shells, Radio equipment etc. Extra men also cannot fit behind the armour in any of the versions.
The book mentions that the Bren carrier was only bulletproof up to a point.
The armour on a loyd carrier is 7mm same as an AT gun shield, maybe the loyd carrier should also get an armour value of 0 also?
In Great Britians OOB pictures for units 453 and 461 Bren carriers are not Bren carriers, they are T16s or Windsors.
From the internet
Windsor carrier introduced 1943/1944.
T16 began production in March 43.
lloyd carrier designed to carry 8 men, crew of 1.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...en_carrier.htm