OT) Best Turn Based Game: Fantasy or Space or War

[Chronon]

For science fiction, my vote (if we're excluding SEIV of course) would be for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. If they had just made one more patch, I would still be playing it.

For wargames, I like Combat Mission - an excellent blend of turn-based tactics and real-time action. If SEV executes tactical combat in the same general way (give ships or Groups orders, click "go," watch action, repeat) I'm all for the real-time turn-based hybrid.

PS. Personally, I don't understand the fuss about real-time combat. We essentially have that in SEIV with strategic combat in simulaneous games: give orders, watch action.

[Fyron]

Wow. MoM2 with Sid? That would be great!!

That would be awful. Sid lost his ability to make great games. Look at that pile of burning rubbish that is Civ3.

PS. Personally, I don't understand the fuss about real-time combat. We essentially have that in SEIV with strategic combat in simulaneous games: give orders, watch action.

It is because some people have an unfounded fear of anything mentioning the phrase "real-time". They see C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft and think that is all that real-time is. They do not realize the possibilities, and how pauseable real-time (where you can issue as many orders and view whatever you want while the combat is paused) is better for combat than any turn-based system.

[ March 20, 2003, 03:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Phoenix-D]

"The funny thing is, before Heroes of Might and Magic IV, the Last predecessor I played was Kings Bounty for the Commodore 64"

Yes! I have that game for PC. Love it, but to this day I can never beat it..I always run out of time.

Phoenix-D

[bostonrpgmania]

Hi BadAxe

very glad to find another age of sail 2 player here.
I recently got privateer's bounty as well
and it works very smoothly

[klausD]

It is because some people have an unfounded fear of anything mentioning the phrase "real-time". They see C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft and think that is all that real-time is. They do not realize the possibilities, and how pauseable real-time (where you can issue as many orders and view whatever you want while the combat is paused) is better for combat than any turn-based system.

Not at all, sorry. The problem is not the "understanding". Its the "not accepting". I do understand the concepts of real time, and I played not only command and conquer. I tested many real time games (even pausables like SFB etc.)

What you do not "understand" is that EVERY kind of real time game, if pausable or not, favors action to thinking. I am not willing to play a game in which it is important if I hit the mouse button at the correct second just to give some orders before he does the same a second later. And if he dont press his mouse button because he is thinking too slow, he will be annihilated. Very funny. This is not the game I want to play.

If you like to play games where it is important at which time I am hitting the mouse button play one of the myriad "4x" real time games out there. But dont try to convert one of the few remaining fortresses of good turnbased gaming, the SE series to trendy realtime. (trendy for me because I am playing games, computer and board, since 20 years now, and I was observing the upcoming of the real time mania first handed)

The problem is that pro real time opinions like yours (which are of course as valid as mine from a neutral point of view) are signalizing Aaron that its ok if he do SE5 with a Rt-tactical engine (instead of letting it as it is) Of course somebody (like me) has to do something against such lobbying.

tschüß
Klaus

[ March 20, 2003, 10:31: Message edited by: klausD ]

[Saarud]

I love strategy games. Been playing games for 25 years now and computer games for almost 20 years. I can't really pick one but here are some of those that have ruined my social life....

Space Empire 4 (But ofcourse!) Master of Magic, Chaos Overlord, Colonization, Imperialism 2, Battle Isle (all of them), Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Reach for the Stars (the old one), Empire, Genghis Khan 1, M.U.L.E., Emperor of the Fading Suns (very buggy and flawed game but IMO best design ever), Medeival Lords, Stars!, Harpoon, Rise of the West, SMAC/X and a bunch of others.

If I had to vote for just one game it would be Chaos Overlord which is a gang strategy games with cyperpunk settings where you are trying to get control of a city. The AI are very good but when playing this game against 4 other humans is when it really shines.

Originally posted by klausD:

quote:

---

It is because some people have an unfounded fear of anything mentioning the phrase "real-time". They see C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft and think that is all that real-time is. They do not realize the possibilities, and how pauseable real-time (where you can issue as many orders and view whatever you want while the combat is paused) is better for combat than any turn-based system.

Not at all, sorry. The problem is not the "understanding". Its the "not accepting". I do understand the concepts of real time, and I played not only command and conquer. I tested many real time games (even pausables like SFB etc.)

What you do not "understand" is that EVERY kind of real time game, if pausable or not, favors action to thinking. I am not willing to play a game in which it is important if I hit the mouse button at the correct second just to give some orders before he does the same a second later. And if he dont press his mouse button because he is thinking too slow, he will be annihilated. Very funny. This is not the game I want to play.

---

I use to think like you.... then I tried EU and EU2 and my world turned around. Europa Universalis 2 is labeled as a RTS and indeed in the game the days continously tick down. However there is a pause button which can be pressed and you can look over your empire and make all the orders you need. This game spans 400 years of history ticking one day at the time. The game includes over 100 independent nations which act each and every day. It would be impossible to make this game true turn based. IMO even if it is label as RTS it feels much more like playing a turn based game.

[ March 20, 2003, 12:26: Message edited by: Saarud ]

[klausD]

use to think like you.... then I tried EU and EU2 and my world turned around. Europa Universalis 2 is labeled as a RTS and indeed in the game the days continously tick down. However there is a pause button which can be pressed and you can look over your empire and make all the orders you need. This game spans 400 years of history ticking one day at the time. The game includes over 100 independent nations which act each and every day. It would be impossible to make this game true turn based. IMO even if it is label as RTS it feels much more like playing a turn based game.

I know both EUs, and and played them and I tried to like them, but I cannot. I am too much a pure turnbased player. And originally EU was a turnbased game - at least the swedish boardgame.

The boardgame was not that complex like the computer game but for an old wargamer (ASL, Streets of Stalingrad, Advanced 3rd Reich to name just a few) complexity has no meaning.

So I think they could have developed a turnbased EU, but they decided to do not, because they feared that all those mainstream pseudo wargamers outthere didnt like the game. I am happy that there are at least some older wargame designs (and very few new ones) which are still turnbased. I have to restrict myself to these old games, but what should I do? Maybe sometimes the hyperactive RT action fashion is over and people come back and design real games, not real time games.

Klaus

[ March 20, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: klausD ]