POLL: Backstabbing

[Iggiboo]

The question should be asked, when is a backstab, really a backstab. In several games I've moved large fleets through my ally's space without notice. Of course he felt I was gonna backstab him and asked me about it, I said I was just moving a fleet around an enemy for an attack because that what I was doing.

He didn't accept that answer and attacked my fleet.

On one level, he felt I backstabbed him.

On another, I felt he backstabbed me.

Backstabbing boils down to trust of each other. Nothing more, nothing less.

[jimbob]

Wow! And I just play the game to stay alive

I've been playing a lot of P&N games where "classical" victory can be very very difficult, if not impossible. Also playing a B5 game, where the two Ancient Races are so much more powerful, that victory cannot be defined as one race predominating/conquering the universe. Instead players will have to be satisfied with one "side" forcing the other into submission. I guess I either choose these types of games because i) I'm an egotistical optimist who thinks he can overcome any challenge (do the impossible, acheive the classical victory where it isn't possible), or ii) I'm not in it for the classical "win".

I'll submit that when I play chess, I'm in it for the win, but something like P&N... I'm just happy to successfully board a freighter and demonstrate to the occupants the correct usage of the airlock system What's Imperator Fyrons signature? "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how much pain you cause along the way". It's just so satisfying to recieve a message from the Uber-Race's diplomat, begging on bended knee "gee willickers, can I please have my colonyship back now Mr. Pirate"

Now, back to my Ego, Ergo and why I love my mother

Edit: Oh, and if I'm in first or second place, I see no reason why I shouldn't have many long knives protruding from my back!

[ June 07, 2003, 18:38: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Roanon]

@Teal:
well said. I totally agree.

If you can't backstab in a critical way that moves you up several positions in the game, then it's not worth it - this is not a real backstab but just a breach of trust and treaty. These small stabs are remembered and usually give a negative image.

On the other hand, a "real", artfully executed backstab, turning the victim within a few turns from a strong empire into a crippled unorganized mass of armies/countries (Dippy) or fleets/planets (SE) or whatever, is a joy to see - even from the receiving end . These too are remembered but at least from my point of view and my experiences do not necessarily give a negative image to the player, rather the opposite.

[Stone Mill]

So may well stated presentations in this thread... I can't begin to credit them all.

I'm quite surprised this topic has not come up earlier.

I've played Diplomacy... as well as Shogun? (the board game) which really focuses on alliances, diplomacy and the human element. Ive won, and lost. Backstabbed, and was the recipient.

I believe in all cases, the person (including me) that was backstabbed agreed that it happed because their position created a savory opportunity for another player, based on their lack of security behind their policy. I can tell you that I have been the strongest ally and worst enemy of the same people.

Quite often during a game we find ourselves chuckling... "Oh so you're trying to pull that stunt again, are you?" Sometimes, it's like splitting ions to separate a strategy from a player, try as we may.

And actually, for those who are put off of the backstabbing / political element, KOTH is the place to be. (I believe DavidG has mentioned this).

[ June 07, 2003, 21:34: Message edited by: Stone Mill ]

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
So may well stated presentations in this thread... I can't begin to credit them all.

I'm quite surprised this topic has not come up earlier.

Have to agree. I thought it might be an interesting poll (actually, I'm trying to gain the title, "Poll Boy", since I'm likely never to be able to stand on the top of that hill).

I also thought I might be able to gleen a bit of info on what I could expect from future alliances/agreements in games where teams are likely to form. Judging from the results...hehe...I had better watch my back!

Though everyone kept their kewl (pretty much) in the discussion (hereunder), I was a bit sorry I started something that turned a bit controversial. But, as we all know, most of those posting in this thread are avid gameplayers, and therefore competitive in games (and in words).

[Gryphin]

Looks like
"if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen or go to a different one"
If the possibitly that you might get backstabbed bothers you then you should only play with people you know you can trust.
Based on what i have read here that seems to be the only option. When The Honerable Slynky and I finish the Phun Challenge I'll be up for a game with others that can agree to various limitaions and that I know will breatk treaties within mutualy agreed upon parameters.

I can't stand the heat so I will desighn the kitchen for venelation I can deal with.

Peace