Are we absolutely sure....

[Windborne]

A better solution would be to give us more levels in each individual technology, say add in "Mineral extraction plant IV", monoliths only go up to level three, that way a level IV mineral extraction plant with the sesmic detection stuff you already get at level for of minerals would pull out more minerals each turn then the highest ranking generalized monolith facility.

[Spyder]

Yep, that is what I was thinking Windborne....give us something that will out produce the monolith. That way if you need minerals, it'll be more efficient to put mineral plants than monoliths.

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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[DirectorTsaarx]

Specialized facilities ALREADY outproduce Monoliths (at the same tech level, of course). For instance, a Mineral Miner generates 800, 900 or 1000 minerals vs. 500, 700, or 900 minerals from a Monolith. Or did you want the resource-specific facilities to generate triple the amount of a Monolith, to make up for the fact that a Monolith generates some of each resource? Although you should also bear in mind the relative costs to build those facilities in the first place (resource-specific facilities are much cheaper than Monoliths).

The only reason I can see for Scanners (or whatever) vs. Robotoid Factories is the build cost. If you have a planet (or system, for the system-wide facilities) that only produces a particular resource, it's cheaper to build the appropriate bonus facility instead of the Robotoid Factory. HOWEVER, the research costs for the resource-specific bonus facilities may not be worth the cost savings. Especially since you also get research and intelligence bonus facilities while researching the Robotoid Factories.

In all, I think some of the facilities were balanced in terms of a high-tech start, but not in terms of a low-tech start. As for the weapons, there've been weapon balance problems since SE3 and SE2. Carriers in SE2 were practically unbeatable; Ripper Beams in both SE2 and SE3 were fairly useless, but Wave Motion Guns were great; Graviton Hellbores in SE3 cost too much to research for the damage ratio. And now in SE4, fighters seem a bit more balanced (though not perfect, it seems); WMG's may now cost too much to research (especially since you have to get Propulsion 8 or 10 or something just to research High-Energy Weapons, and then do all the research to get WMG's). Graviton Hellbores are easier to research than in SE3; the damage ratio still isn't great, but it's practically the only direct-fire weapon with Range 8 (except for WMG's, Anti-Proton Beam 12's, and some of the Organic weapons).

Ah well, enough off-thread ranting...

[Spyder]

You are correct, DT, but.....

For the research cost to get there, Miners III are worth far less than Monoliths III because you must research ALL THREE resource trees to gain the 1000, where, with Monoliths you need only research Planetary Usage where you gain other techs as well.

The Monolith facilities, because they'll mine EACH of the resources, are way more efficient overall. The 100 resource difference between the Monolith III and the Miner III is too small. Like someone said below, if we had a Miner IV & V that significantly outproduced the Monolith Facility, we could mine single resource planets because it'd be more efficient then to build Miners V on a planet that only has plentiful minerals, or, in a case where you need minerals very badly.


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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[Daynarr]

Monoliths are also much more expensive. If you do add more levels for standard extractors you will make monoliths completely useless.

[Spyder]

I don't thnk so Daynarr....first, you need 1 of each type (3 total) of resourcer to produce what one monolith produces. On planets with two or more resources worth mining, monoliths will still be more efficient because of the facility limit. The only time it'd be better for a resourcer on those planets is when you have a huge need for one particular resource.

So, I'd make a IV that yields 1200 resources and put it at least two more hops down the tree from the III and probably not make a V.

This would also tend to put the Scanners back in the useful Category because on planets where you are mining a single resource, those would be more efficient than the robotoid factories.


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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[This message has been edited by Spyder (edited 06 March 2001).]