StarFire Mod v-Beta 2

[DemoMonkey]

To clarify what I was going for: A weapon that does massive normal damage, but only 1/4 damage to shields,

AND

Engine components themselves generate a small amount of shields.

So when the normal shileds and the "drive field" (the small amount of shields generated by the engines) have been knocked out, the weapon will gut a ship like a fish.

Shang (or is it Wubbles the Borg now?)

Please allow me a respectful criticism.

By not accepting any suggestions that fail to conform perfectly to the source material, you are yourself, in fact, not conforming to source material. Engine interdiction DOES exist in the source material, so by not putting ANYTHING in to represent it, you are ignoring your own canon.

At the risk of repeating myself from the closed warp point discussion - a compromise solution that preserves the flavour and metagame effect of something is better than just pretending it isn't there at all because you can't get it to work perfectly.

Of course, as the person in charge of the project these things are, of course, your call. However if your position is "It must work EXACTLY the same as the source material or it will be left out entirely, no matter how important it is to the strategy and tactics" then please say so and I can stop wasting your time.

I still, of course, support the project and look forward to it's completion.

Thank you.

[Growltigger]

DemoMonkey,

Good post my man, but I must say in Wubbles' defence that as a general point, I do not believe any of us are setting out a policy whereby if a suggestion is non-canon, it is ignored.

I think the thrust of Wubbles' point is that it may be next to impossible to accurately reflect the interdiction field with the limitations of the mod, so what we are trying to do is find a solution which is (a) workable and (b) if not canon, then a suitable compromise on canon.

That is why I think Wubbles asked you if you could recall whether the damage multiplier for nukes applied if both shields and the interdiction field were down.

NB It is years since I looked at the 3rd edition rule book (I found it in the loft over the weekend, hidden between my wife's pony rosettes from when she was 15) but, I seem to recall that shields operated outside the interdiction field, therefore you had to thrash the shields, and knock down the engines, before you got multiple damage.

If this is the case, then what I think Wubbles is saying is that this could be modded.

The problem is that if we decide we want an interdiction effect, then we need to work out how best it can operate between SEIVG and SF canon.

The whole point of this exercise is to set up a group of people with both SEIV and SF experience to try and batter out a workable compromise.

Keep the suggestions coming as you seem to have more of an intuitive feel for the Starfire system than certainly I do. And my eyes glaze over when you start getting technical on the damage multipliers. Me just want mod on plate.

[DemoMonkey]

"So when the normal shileds and the "drive field" ..."

Of course, first we have to mod the game to include "shileds"...

[Growltigger]

Actually, that is a good point. What happens in the Mod if Wubbles turns out to be a bit dyslexic, so that the rest of us have to build "lihgt curisers" armed with "forec bemas" and "poont defuns"?

Could drive everyone madder than badgers

[President_Elect_Shang]

Ok this Friday as a release for the Beta just is not going to happen, as I sat down Last week and decided on Feb 6 it seemed a really good date with plenty of margin for error. However those real world events can often sneak up on you and since Saturday I have been running around putting out one fire after another. So as I sit here today and look down range I think that I can safely say that Friday the 13 is a good date. HA-HA-HA, maybe I should change that now…

Demo: I got a little lost with your comment, although I appreciate the criticism I have to point that although I may have forgotten about the interdiction effect who can blame me, I have created this mod from scratch and by using the few elements that could convert over from the first Version of it. When you pointed out the interdiction effect I immediately recognized it and started to work on including it into the mod. When I lost sight as to how it could be done reasonably I asked others for help. This can be seen in my below Posts, in particular the one to Dan K pointing out that the shield effect remaining after all drives are knocked out may not be of consequence.

I really do thank you for all that you are suggesting, and also for volunteering to work on the ship sets, but you must keep in mind that if the proposed idea to the mod strays to far, no matter who thought it up (i.e. my idea about adding an engine at a lower tech level), than it won’t get added. Your point about the interdiction field is great, if Dan K is right about the shields AND drive field comment than hope is alive and it should be doable. But if he is wrong (I hope not) than what you are proposing wonders to far off cannon and I could not agree with adding it in. On the other hand there is always the vote of the beta testers that can override me.

This is lengthy so let me sum up my point, I don’t want you to feel that I am ignoring your comments or anyone else’s and I don’t want you or anyone else to feel or think that I hold “ultimate power” over this mod. I try to stick to cannon, once the beta is done and tested non-cannon features can always be added, till then non-cannon features could be added but I would need to be convinced or the majority of the beta testers would need to request it. Finally cannon features maybe missing, because I have done a lot of work so far and I am human I am bound to forget, just remind me.

The comment about the warp point is also one that I did not ignore; it just can not be done. If I add it in than for what good or reason? The AI will not be tricked into looking for it, as Fyron pointed out the path-finding AI can not be modified, and a player need not search for it, just click on the map until the left panel pops up and says (in effect) here is a warp point. So I hope you can see that I did not ignore you. It just can not be done in a way that would work. Keep in mind that I am constrained by the limits SE4G places on me.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Good thoughts MR Floppy and thank you. I also want to include the interdiction effect into the Mod. That is why I am asking for help on this one, maybe I should explain how I understand the interdiction effect as working and this may help out others to point out my error:

1) It is an “effect” not a “function” likes shields. A unit that has powered down or has no engines may raise shields but will not get the “benefit” of the interdiction effect.

2) Any unit that does not have a drive field and thus does not have the interdiction effect suffers x10 damage from any missile with a warhead of: Nuclear, Anti-Matter, Advanced Anti-Matter.

3) Some "units" get the interdiction effect due to station keeping drives.

Is this right?
3rdE Revised rulebook P#19 rule 03.11.07: “A starship which shuts down (deactivates) all of its engines has a 360 degree field of fire but loses the missile interdiction of its drive.”

So nothing about shields, thus my point (the reason my spirits got crushed) is that to mod in the Interdiction Effect we would need to (1) use a SE4G ability other than shields or (2) accept that the interdiction effect will not work as it should and push ahead (now that I have a new deadline I think it can be done) or (3) let the idea go (as it means wondering too far off cannon to accomplish), maybe not for good, but at least for now.

Edited in:
Mr Floppies I just wanted to touch on your comment about the shields and the interdiction effect. The drive field that provides the effect extends past the point of the shields. Remember that the interdiction effect is not a “shield”; all it is doing is “shorting” out the missile guidance and “fooling” it into detonating the warhead early. If shields extended past the drive field than to play the game you would first have to apply the missile damage at x10 against shields then reduce damage until the Last engine is destroyed, then increase damage back to x10.

[ February 05, 2004, 16:41: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by Growltigger:
"poont defuns"?

Hay I like to point at deez buns, they are so shapely and every one should look at deem!