Supercombattant pretenders....what about...

[DominionsFan]

Originally posted by MStavros:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pocus:
super combatting pretenders are only half (or a third, YMMV) of the problem. Your forget the numerous SC still available.

But it IS a problem, a big problem in fact. These pretender SCs are too cheap in early game.
Also you can abuse the AI with it.

---

I agree with this.

Originally posted by apoger:
If we force pretenders to stay at home or remove the SC abilities, it weakens the game by removing options. I like adding options rather than losing.

..but I agree with this too.


So what can we do??????? The AI cannot defend himself against these early pretender SCs...
Damn lot of things are screwed....the strat. AI, and now this...I am so pissed.

[ November 02, 2003, 11:55: Message edited by: DominionsFAN ]

[MStavros]

Originally posted by apoger:
>Anyways I've made a topic about this, reply there if you want.

-Ok I'm here-

I like the idea of having mages/spells that would help repel super combatants.

For example, I never use my combatants versus a lizard province. They have lizard shaman that almost always "curse" my combatants.

This is perfect. If there were a few more ways that mages could potentially hurt a SC, players could use these spells for defense, plus the computer could scatter a few mages around in indy provinces to deter using SC to steam roll at the game start.

That way we can have the strategy of SC's, but also counters for it. If we force pretenders to stay at home or remove the SC abilities, it weakens the game by removing options. I like adding options rather than losing.

Ok than how can you stop the pretender SC abuse?
MAYBE the players can defend against it, but the AI is screwed.

[Wendigo]

[quote]Originally posted by MStavros:

Originally posted by apoger:
This is perfect. If there were a few more ways that mages could potentially hurt a SC, players could use these spells for defense

They exist, It's just that you haven't found them yet.

Soul slay has seen its range increased. Paralyze is deadly now.
Try the new mind bLast, or those Mictlan spiders with their webbing & death attacks.

Ok than how can you stop the pretender SC abuse?
[/QB]

You kill them. Been there, done that in Dom I multiple times.

MAYBE the players can defend against it, but the AI is screwed. [/QB]

The spell AI is actually pretty good. I had a couple of Behemonths & a commander with 2 lifelong contracts recently stoned & slowly hacked to pieces by the AI. Did you know that the contract doesn't work if the bearer cannot move?

Maybe you should try playing vs different AI nations that the ones you have faced until now.

[MStavros]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
The spell AI is actually pretty good. I had a couple of Behemonths & a commander with 2 lifelong contracts recently stoned & slowly hacked to pieces by the AI. Did you know that the contract doesn't work if the bearer cannot move?

Maybe you should try playing vs different AI nations that the ones you have faced until now.

Wendigo, the spell AI is good, but the strategic AI is very weak, thus you can massacre whole AI armies with your pretender SC in the early game, and that is very unbalanced.

[ November 02, 2003, 13:26: Message edited by: MStavros ]

[Alneyan]

I don't expect the AI to be able to handle a supercombattant, especially in the very early game. But I don't know any AI able to withstand an early rush well either. (Or please name one AI able to handle a very early rush, either in a RTS or a TBS, without cheating) It sounds even like an exploit for me, going in for the kill and wondering why the AI fell that easily.

However, I am not saying anything about what it is like in MP, for a very good reason: I simply don't have enough experience with Dominions in MP so.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by MStavros:
What about do not allow the Pretenders to leave their home province?
That would be the best. Why?
2. The AI won't make stupid things, like moving with his pretender from province to province ALONE. The AI is always loosing his pretender very fast. I don't understand that what is the AI is doing with his pretender anyways...IT is always moving it..

Locking a pretender in his castle makes it susceptable to other tactics although they would at least be later-game tactics.

If the AI has a combatant pretender then he should use it. Thats its purpose and its not disastrous to lose it in combat. As far as the moving it around I think what happens is that the pretender leaves home early with an army but is quickly the only survivor left. What seems to be lacking is not that the pretender shouldnt leave home but that it should recognize when to get reinforcements.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by MStavros:
Wendigo, the spell AI is good,

Fine. Having a good spell AI is important.

but the strategic AI is very weak, thus you can massacre whole AI armies with your pretender SC in the early game, and that is very unbalanced.

A good strategic AI is extremely difficult to implement, and it's NOT that important. If you're concerned about it, then I assume you're primarily an SP player, right? Then there's something illogical in your rant: if you think the AI can't handle your SC pretender, why do you play a SC at all? If you absolutely want to play an SC pretender, why don't you script the AI to make him more challenging? Eg, try adding the following line in your map files:

#scale_chaos 0 -3
#scale_lazy 0 -3
#scale_cold 0 -3
#scale_death 0 -3
#scale_unluck 0 -3
#scale_unmagic 0 -1
#dominionstr 0 10
#god 0 "Bog Mummy"
#xp 500
#mag_fire 10
#mag_air 10
#mag_water 10
#mag_earth 10
#mag_astral 10
#mag_death 10
#mag_nature 10
#mag_blood 10
#additem "Blood Thorn"
#additem "Charcoal Shield"
#additem "Starshine Skullcap"
#additem "Chain mail of Displacement"
#additem "Boots of Quickness"
#additem "Amulet of Antimagic"
#additem "Ring of Tamed Lightning"

That's what I used in Doms 1 for an Abysian AI when I wanted a challenge. Copy/paste and replace the '0' by the nation number if you want several tough AIs like this one. And if you find that's not enough, give a preset starting place to your AIs, and add things in that province. Eg, (assuming the Abysia AI starts in province 42):

#specstart 0 42
#setland 42
#population 100000
#knownfeature "Summoning Circle"
#knownfeature "The Mountain of Power"
#commander "Doom Horror"
#comname "Gog"
#xp 500
#mag_water 5
#mag_astral 15
#mag_death 10
#additem "Amulet of Antimagic"
#additem "Ring of Regeneration"
#commander "Doom Horror"
#comname "Magog"
#xp 500
#mag_water 5
#mag_astral 15
#mag_death 10
#additem "Amulet of Antimagic"
#additem "Ring of Regeneration"

There's nothing like a Doom Horror with fear +30, Quickness, Astral Shield and Soul Vortex to make your day!