Which pretender design is best...?

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Zen:
Well if you are going to go S&A I'd stay away from Bless Effects as a mentality. S&A is very limited in it's use of it's sacreds and your armies will not be primarily comprised of them, neither can they sustain themselves against SC's by a blessing alone.

...

And I'd pick Productivity over Growth, because no matter how much you don't want to use the standard troops of TC, you will be forced to, in order to keep your elite units free of attrition. Early game I'd suspect you are going to be relying heavily on Flaming Arrows regardless, so you need to be able to get as many bowman as you can.

....

I don't envy you that game. While I love S&A, it is far from competitive. Better break out the Courtesans and send them to anyone near Pythium, Rlyeh, or Arco soften up diplomacy so you don't have to work uphill, both ways

I agree that initially bowmen will be critical, but as a practical matter, starting with 5 clustered provs, it didn't seem to increase output so enormously as to be worth the trouble.

I was looking at the water blessing since all the mages are sacred, and earth, because it makes for a better SC, I don't otherwise really get the path... and reinvig isn't a bad thing with the high enc of TC's mages. But I agree the +4 defense is not as attractive as usual.

I do have a pure scale option in the poll, but S+A stardard units beg for a radical strategy.

And I understand that S+A is a risky theme, just seems like a nearly optimal place to try it, since some expansion has already been done for you...

Pity Courtesans can't assasinate, you'd think they'd be able to get between the target and bodyguards pretty easily.

Thanks for your continued thoughts,


Rabe the Mandarin-Elect

All your mages can cast quickness already. (They all start with 1 Water).

Earth of at least 4 (if you are looking for a Blessing) would work well. Though depending on your points.

I agree that initially bowmen will be critical, but as a practical matter, starting with 5 clustered provs, it didn't seem to increase output so enormously as to be worth the trouble.

Well all your opponents are going to start with 5 provinces too, right? What's going to stop them from building troops? You can't rely early game on having an adequate enough research or gem income to counter masses of troops (Imagine say, Man with Longbows).

Growth doesn't impact the early game much at all, and if you can't survive the early game, the late game doesn't matter especially if you have 17 other conflicting dominions. But that is my personal stance. Since you have access to Nature Mages, you don't have to, in reality, worry about not being able to make winebags/cauldrons if you need supply.

[ February 10, 2004, 21:17: Message edited by: Zen ]

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Zen:
All your mages can cast quickness already. (They all start with 1 Water).

True. The bless effect isn't cumulative with the spell?

Rabe the Slowed-way-down....

I believe it is, but it won't let you cast 3 spells a round (which would fatigue them *even faster*). And since when do your mages need +4 Defense?

[rabelais]

I'd appreciate it if all you fine folks voting "other", would post some specifics on your unique choice.


Thanks,

Rabe the Sadly Unenlightened

[atul]

Originally posted by rabelais:
The bless effect isn't cumulative with the spell?

Actually, I don't think it is. My first to start MP (but, it seems, not necessarily first to end) is/was with TC S&A and I was really considering the water9 blessing. But when testing it, I couldn't see it stacking with the spell no matter how hard I tried/hoped. Of course, my testing was not extensive, so I might have erred. Anyway, was considering it mostly for demon summons (just imagine all those wheels of fire), but deemed it not worth of the points.

I'm no vet, but I must echo Zen in the prod-growth dispute. Of course it feels good to know that your people are healthy and breed like rabbits, but to my limited experience, it just doesn't cut it. When suffered the prod-zeroing-2nd-turn bug, it really hurt. With growth you just can't build anything.

National summons are great, but apart from the dispossessed spirits (gotta love 'em, low-def/mr nations using elite troops beware) you can't mass-summon them. Hum, just a thought, I'm finding it hard to find a good commander for my troops, since nowadays keep having them in all sorts (mundane/magic/undead). Anyone found a good solution, or am I forced to keep a different commander for every flavor?

(Oh yeah, Last of the two euro-cents. With turmoil, strong dominion. Very strong. You are anyway surrounded by all those boring people who take order/misfortune, and their bad-luck dominion in your lands _hurts_. Fortunately those barbarian hordes and random villains attack usually in foreign dominion provinces, which are occupied by your guarding armies or enemy's advancing ones. Not sure how the mechanics work, but that's my experience anyway)

Originally posted by atul:
Hum, just a thought, I'm finding it hard to find a good commander for my troops, since nowadays keep having them in all sorts (mundane/magic/undead). Anyone found a good solution, or am I forced to keep a different commander for every flavor?

You just use a different commander. Though you can put them all under a CM if he has the right picks and some magic items.

S&A I'd consider making a Whip of Command/Scepter of Authority for a noble (or indy commander) at least once. For Dispossesed spirits, you have easy access to Revive King and for magicals, a CM works just fine.

S&A is actually fun in that aspect, since there is no one single unit, outside of the immortals, that can hold your masses of almost totally useless troops