Early Game, Mid Game, and End Game... What's the goal of each?

ywl · #1 March 15th, 2004, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spacepain:
What constitues and what you should do during each phase of the game, beginning, middle, and late, is one topic that the goal for most if not all nations is probably similiar.

As of present I understand that early game is a giant land grab, mid game is collection of magical resources, and gradual build up of small advantages, and the end game is when you let loose all the stored up magical goodness.

Am I wrong in this methology? It could easily explain why I am being beaten even by the easy AI....

Your methodology is correct.

What nation are you using? Each nation has some trick on how to use their units effectively. Man, for example, can be quite different from Ulm.

What do you mean by beaten by easy AI? It can mean two things: First, you're not expanding as fast as the AI. As a rule of thumb, you should be top on province, gold income and (usually) gem resource by turn 20 of the game. Second, you don't know how to handle the attack of the AI, which usually occur after turn 12 to 15. For that, you'll need to get used to how the AI behaves.

Wauthan · #2 March 15th, 2004, 11:46 PM

When I first started playing this game the AI owned me in every single game. I would have propably put on the shelf and crossed it off as another stupid purchase if it had not been for this forum.

I started playing as Atlantis on the small The Sundering map. I selected four human opponents then handed control over to the AI on the first turn. That way I could fight against pretenders I had designed myself. Since the AI don't really go after Sea nations until late in the game, especially if you have not attacked it, I could research and build armies in my own pace as well as attacking one enemy at the time. The hardest part for me to learn was to be able to fight on several fronts at once. On a small map and as a sea nation this is not a problem so you can try out different strategies until you find one that works well enough.

[ March 15, 2004, 21:51: Message edited by: Wauthan ]

Spacepain · #3 March 16th, 2004, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Try Atlantis, or R'lyeh. That will impede the AI's ability to rush you, and you'll be able to experience a full game without being swarmed.

See, thats the confusing part... I can play the R'leyh, Ulm, Pythium, and any other race with respectable base units - units that are less vulnerable to being rushed early on- with relatively little trouble, and scrap wins - most of the time against - against easy AI. Its just a matter of more effectively utilizng resources than the AI, which isn't that hard, and having a little bit of luck.

When I start to approach magic *shudder* or try utilize a race without the really hardy units... things go down hill... quickly. Suddenly, I have to worry about not just keeping decent armies up to snuff, but I have that whole magic thing to worry about.

I tried Mictlan a few times and was repeatedly whomped, same goes with Machaka, Vanheim, Ermor (all 3 themes), etc...

So somewhere between the army part of the game and the magical side of the game I'm missing something.

[ March 15, 2004, 23:17: Message edited by: Spacepain ]

Norfleet · #4 March 16th, 2004, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spacepain:
When I start to approach magic *shudder* or try utilize a race without the really hardy units... things go down hill... quickly. Suddenly, I have to worry about not just keeping decent armies up to snuff, but I have that whole magic thing to worry about.

Maybe that's just not your thing. I'm the opposite. I do great with races that have a strong magical base, and I crash and burn on a race with extremely poor magical ability, such as Ulm. I just don't do Ulm very well. Admittedly, as a more experienced player, I can hold off the AI anyway, but it's definitely an uphill struggle, and I probably wouldn't be able to manage it at all at your level of experience. Maybe it's just your lot in life to be stronger with the building and production of normal troops, and you should pick nations that cater to your personal preferences. If you want to expand your magical strength, try picking a nation which is a solid hybrid of these, such as Pythium or Arco. I found that I was able to somewhat improve my Ulm game after playing as Pythium a bit: Normally, I tend to heavily gravitate towards magic, as Ermor.

ywl · #5 March 16th, 2004, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spacepain:

quote:
Originally posted by Norfleet:
Try Atlantis, or R'lyeh. That will impede the AI's ability to rush you, and you'll be able to experience a full game without being swarmed.

See, thats the confusing part... I can play the R'leyh, Ulm, Pythium, and any other race with respectable base units - units that are less vulnerable to being rushed early on- with relatively little trouble, and scrap wins - most of the time against - against easy AI. Its just a matter of more effectively utilizng resources than the AI, which isn't that hard, and having a little bit of luck.

When I start to approach magic *shudder* or try utilize a race without the really hardy units... things go down hill... quickly. Suddenly, I have to worry about not just keeping decent armies up to snuff, but I have that whole magic thing to worry about.

I tried Mictlan a few times and was repeatedly whomped, same goes with Machaka, Vanheim, Ermor (all 3 themes), etc...

So somewhere between the army part of the game and the magical side of the game I'm missing something.

There is nothing shameful using the basic units

. Many good players win their MP game just by that.

Except for Mictlan, you can use similar heavy infantry tactics for Machaka, Vanheim and Broken Ermor. So, I don't know why you would have problem with them... Mictlan is hard - I'm still figuring out how to use it correctly.

There are tricks for the magic of each nations because they all have different combinations of magic paths. The is more variations if you used a magical pretender. It'll take a while to learn how to use magic efficiently. I've played the game for more than a year and I'm still trying different aspects the magic system on a weekly basis.

Try to get yourself familiar with one or two nations first. Even Ulm is not that limiting in magic, you just need to know the way...

Arryn · #6 March 16th, 2004, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I crash and burn on a race with extremely poor magical ability, such as Ulm. I just don't do Ulm very well.

I like Ulm, and they aren't all that bad magically, just rather severely limited in scope. Plus they are great at item-making, which compensates for a lot. It's not a nation I would choose to play against humans, but against AIs they are fine.

Playing Ulm is pretty straightforward: bash anything that gets in your way with your konigstigers (guardians) and jagdpanthers (black lords), and keep Albert Speer & Co. (your smiths) busy upgrading your cannon and armor. Your main short-term goal (and weakness) is to gather Italians (indies) to use as your luftwaffe and kriegsmarine.

Norfleet · #7 March 16th, 2004, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arryn:
I like Ulm, and they aren't all that bad magically, just rather severely limited in scope. Plus they are great at item-making, which compensates for a lot. It's not a nation I would choose to play against humans, but against AIs they are fine.

I don't find their item-making prowess THAT wonderful, given their lack of randoms that would increase the variety of forge targets. Forge of the Ancients as an early goal can help, but invariably I find that the inflexibility of their national magics, coupled with their high point demands for early production of their resource-expensive units, leaves me too thin on magic for my tastes. My best study of Ulmish behavior to date has been Condors....and he asks *ME* for advice. I do okay against the AI, but I am far from the master of Ulm.