Clams overpowered?

Reverend Zombie · #1 April 16th, 2004, 04:23 AM

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Whiners? Please. If you don't see a problem with clams, then I suggest you play a game some time where you build absolutely none of them, and your opponent builds a hundred.

If everyone hoarded clams, wouldn't that take care of the problem, as well?

The real problem I see with the game is...troops. If you do not think having more troops than your opponents is unbalancing, I suggest you play a game some time where you build absolutely no troops, and your opponent builds hundreds.

Stormbinder · #2 April 16th, 2004, 04:33 AM

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Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Norfleet:
[qb]Well, that shouldn't be a surprise. You don't to whine about it if you think there's nothing that's really wrong, it's only the people who want to scream for nerfs that have to cry loudly.

Actually, I find that it's the people who are deathly afraid of their favourite overpowered strategies being removed that complain the loudest. After all, you manage to show up in every clam and VQ debate and make vague statements about how it's not really that poweful. If it's not powerful Norfleet, then why do you always use the Vampire Queen, and always build as many clams as possible?

Very true. I find it amusing that somebody, who is using/abusing the same primitive clam-hoarding strategy that requires no strategic skills whatsoever in almost every game that he plays, calls the ones who points to this problem "whiners". It sounds very hypocratic to me. I was avoiding geting personal in the past, but you are crossing the line with your statements Norfleet, where you are trying to paint your opponents as "whinners" and "nerf-criers". Coming from you it just adds weight to anti-clams arguments.

[ April 16, 2004, 03:56: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Graeme Dice · #3 April 16th, 2004, 04:36 AM

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Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
If everyone hoarded clams, wouldn't that take care of the problem, as well?

It might, if every nation had identical access to water magic and the same gem producing site in their capital, but that would destroy the variety in the nations.

Quote:

The real problem I see with the game is...troops. If you do not think having more troops than your opponents is unbalancing, I suggest you play a game some time where you build absolutely no troops, and your opponent builds hundreds.

That's a perfectly functional strategy if you've selected the magic paths properly on a vampire queen. No amount of normal troops can defeat her, so it doesn't much matter how many get thrown at her.

Troops also don't provide the resources for unlimited growth of more troops. To get an income of 100 astral pearls from territory, you'd would need to control something around more than half of the world map at 75% magic site frequency.

Stormbinder · #4 April 16th, 2004, 04:41 AM

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Originally posted by Yossar:
Hmm, reading the forums, you'd think clams were the biggest problem in the game. Yet, make a poll and the majority of people think they are fine. Odd.

Nope, not at all Yossar. It is small majority, and many of those who voted "Clams are fine the way they are now" just haven't used the clam hoarding strategy as it can be abused by dedicated clam-hoarders, and/or they haven't meet (yet) such player themselves in MP.

You can not really say that clams are overpowered or not until you really try hoarding them in at least one MP game, and fail or succeed, or until you face opponent who will do it himself and you'll see its effects on your game.

Quite an oposite, I think the fact that 40% of all people who stated that opinion said "Yes, clams are overpowered and need to be fixed" speaks volume about seriosness of the problem.

Catquiet · #5 April 16th, 2004, 04:43 AM

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Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Troops also don't provide the resources for unlimited growth of more troops.

Troops also require gold for upkeep. If you want lots of troops, you will need lots of provinces. If you want lots of provinces, you will have to fight the other nations for them.

If you want lots of clams all you need are water gems and time.

Zapmeister · #6 April 16th, 2004, 04:54 AM

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Quite an oposite, I think the fact that 40% of all people who stated that opinion said "Yes, clams are overpowered and need to be fixed" speaks volume about seriosness of the problem.

Quite. One problem with the poll, actually, is that it doesn't divide the "Clams are OK" camp into those that wouldn't mind if a little something was done to satisfy the "Clams are broken" camp, and those that firmly oppose any change.

Stormbinder · #7 April 16th, 2004, 05:01 AM

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Originally posted by Zapmeister:

quote:
Quite an oposite, I think the fact that 40% of all people who stated that opinion said "Yes, clams are overpowered and need to be fixed" speaks volume about seriosness of the problem.

Quite. One problem with the poll, actually, is that it doesn't divide the "Clams are OK" camp into those that wouldn't mind if a little something was done to satisfy the "Clams are broken" camp, and those that firmly oppose any change.

Good point Zapmeister. We could try the "Advanced Clams Poll" later. We may also add an option of "I don't know, I never tried/experienced clam hoarding in MP".