Clams overpowered?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Raising cost sounds really nice, that way, you don't have hordes of clams spawning more and more clams like demon-rabbit-aphrodisiac-cracked up-clams

It'd be nice. It would seperate out the mere wannabes from the true investors. But it's still easier to counter clams by making sure anyone who makes one gets eaten by a horror. The more clams you make, the more hammers you lose when your clammers are eaten by horrors. There are few normal mages, with any kind of bodyguards, that can withstand horror attacks.

[tinkthank]

Seems that in order to get lots of clams and have them be useful (that is, not get them first at turn 90), you need to
- produces water mages
- use those water mages to go and find water gems
- use those water mages to forge clams/turn
- use those water gems to forge clams

That is what you spend. This has a nice payback, of course.
People who do not horde clams can, surely, do other worthwhile things with those resources instead of produce mages, have them find water gems, have them forge clams?
This is not to say that Clams might be harder to research, or require 10-water 5-astral pearls to make (my personal choice), but they certainly do not break the game in my opinion.
I find the comparison to Warcraft III extremely poor, no offense intended. WIII is an excellent game for what it is, but lacks the diversity found in Dom2. I really dont think there is any "cheese" in Dom2, which is not to say that everything is perfectly balanced (I feel some nations are stronger than others on the whole, but that is just me), just that there is no real comparison to WIII ("when you get to 2 minutes 40 seconds you will have your Beastmaster do XXX while your opponent still needs 20 seconds to get that Grunt out...").
Any nation with good magic gem income capabilities just needs to fight those other nations to a standstill. Yes. But I just think that is easier said than done.
Just my opinion, however, and I am a certified newbie.

[DLC]

i like fire gem hoarding

[calmon]

i like fire gem hoarding

I know thats just a joke.

Fever fetish or blood stones are both at a normal cost/benefit rate. There are 3 major advantages for the clams:

1. It cost only (2) water. Its easier to find mages with water magic path then the 2 different pathes of the fetish/stone. With robe/bracelet water 2 is easy.

2. clam is without disadvantage. Fever fetish diseases and blood stones costs are to high for hording.

3. clams produce astral pearls and this are the universal gems in the game. They can be exchanged in each other gem for a 2:1 rate. Later the pearls are used direct for wish/disentchant/arcane nexus. Last one is really hard when cast with 1500-2000 pearls. Non-horders have no chance to dispell and the horder can easily disentchant each other non-horder global entchantment and take the slot for his own spells. With an 200-300 astral income (clams+arcane nexus) there are enough pearls to wish for doom horrors, armageddon or just more gems.

The problem with the clams occurs mainly in the longer medium/big map games. In smaller maps the clam tactic may be to slow. Anyway with a cost of only 10 and without any disadvantages the clams are overpowered and clam hording is a "performance of duty" for every MP player in an endgame. Its really boring because its always the same mechanism...

[ April 16, 2004, 11:27: Message edited by: calmon ]

[Zapmeister]

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill all, and you are a god!"

Kill one man, and you are a murderer.
Kill millions, and you are a mass-murdering psychopath.
Kill all, and you are alone.

[mnoracle]

blood stones are both at a normal cost/benefit rate

Hmm... let me see, blood stones 20+5, but they are also pump earth magic skill. Thinking that you can easily amass huge numbers of blood slaves, i don't see where is the main difference with clams.
So BS are broken!!! Nerf, nerf...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
For a non-hoarder to win against a hoarder, he merely needs to halt the hoarding: If mages who make clams keep getting eaten by horrors, the hoarding will stop shortly.

So, now Mictlan and Abysia can do something about it if the clam hoarder hasn't been smart enough to put domes on his provinces.