Golden Age Arcoscephale

[Blitz]

I have had great successes with GE Arco. But all my successes have been with not using Wind Riders at all because my playstyle, while very centralized around mobility, does not play into the cost effectiveness of Wind Riders. So in effect boosting or making the Wind Riders more viable for me, would strengthen the entire theme, probably to the point that some might feel it is better than the Arco Base, which is exactly what a Theme is not intended to do.

I'd be interested to know if you've found some tactics with GE that I haven't. I generally relied on earth summons (and air queens), using my early research ability to get me there quickly. The construction earth buffs helped my cardaces quite a bit, and I added a few chariots and icarids to attack the flanks and rear. I think the early research boost can help offset the weaknesses of cardaces, hopefully long enough to get knights or other strong independants going.

While this strategy is somewhat succesful, I wish I could justify using wind riders more... as I see them as the signature unit of the theme. I think the devs may have overestimated the power of the rider and costed him unfairly.

Originally posted by Blitz:
I'd be interested to know if you've found some tactics with GE that I haven't. I generally relied on earth summons (and air queens), using my early research ability to get me there quickly. The construction earth buffs helped my cardaces quite a bit, and I added a few chariots and icarids to attack the flanks and rear. I think the early research boost can help offset the weaknesses of cardaces, hopefully long enough to get knights or other strong independants going.

Well it's a game by game basis which tactics I use. But In General?

• Heavy Combat Oriented Pretender viable both Early and Late Game (Think Natty, PoD, Phoenix, Daughter, Cyclops)
• Mass Engineers
• Early sacrifice of Expansion to get a Second Fortress up Immediately
• Midgame I rely on Golembatants until I get my Mystic Support Spells in Line
• Abuse of Communion at every concievable opportunity

With my strategy I don't have as many Provinces as I would with normal Arco, but I have the unsiegable fortresses pushing in while I fortify heavily with Mass Mystic and Gateway in heavy chariot armies with support that will even roll Devil armies with Golem and Mechanical Men support. The key is to get the right amount of research fast enough while not depleting your gem income too far. This is why it's key to use your early gem income to fuel search spells (I'm not talking Acashic here).

[Blitz]

The overwhelming use of cheaper mages is to be research or bloodhunt, especially in the early-game, because they are more efficient

You've stated this again, and rather than unintentionaly insult you again, I'll try to be clearer.

Many if not most nations have cheaper mages that are in many circumstances more cost effective at doing various things. You've correctly identified researching and forging, and I reminded you of blood hunting... but on the battlefield there are many reasons why a cheaper mage might be better. Taking again, the seithkona who can cast both healing light and nether darts... her fatigue will be higher from these spells, but obviously two seithkona can cast them twice as often at less than half the price. Other good examples of this are the Marignion witch hunter, the Plythium Therug, the Caelum Seraph, the Machaka sorceress, the mother of avalon, and others. Clearly there are many situations where spending double the gold on a mage to cast the same spells is not effective.

[Scott Hebert]

You've stated this again, and rather than unintentionaly insult you again, I'll try to be clearer.

That would be appreciated.

Many if not most nations have cheaper mages that are in many circumstances more cost effective at doing various things. You've correctly identified researching and forging, and I reminded you of blood hunting...

And I thank you for that reminder.

but on the battlefield there are many reasons why a cheaper mage might be better. Taking again, the seithkona who can cast both healing light and nether darts... her fatigue will be higher from these spells, but obviously two seithkona can cast them twice as often at less than half the price. Other good examples of this are the Marignion witch hunter, the Plythium Therug, the Caelum Seraph, the Machaka sorceress, the mother of avalon, and others. Clearly there are many situations where spending double the gold on a mage to cast the same spells is not effective.

Certainly, and I don't try to imply otherwise. However, I wasn't aware that the Evocation-7 necessary to cast Nether Darts qualified as 'especially early game'.

I simply don't see myself using, or hear of most others using, their cheap mages early in a combat role, or _any_ role other than researcher, bloodhunter, or (occasionally) cheap-item forger.

My point in all of this relative to GE Arco is that the Philosopher gives up the forging/battle roles that the Seithkona in order to give the same research at a cheaper price. 40g + 2.6667g per turn cheaper.

_Especially_ early-game, this difference is huge. Considering the other differences between GE Arco and Utgard Jotunheim, it should be much easier for Arco to afford the non-troop expenditures (forts/labs/temples/mercs) than Utgard Jotunheim, all other things being equal (and I'm not saying they are).

Just something to consider.

[Scott Hebert]

[quote]Originally posted by Zen:
Well it's a game by game basis which tactics I use. But In General?

Heavy Combat Oriented Pretender viable both Early and Late Game (Think Natty, PoD, Phoenix, Daughter, Cyclops)

By daughter, do you mean the Daughter of the Land? I wasn't aware she was considered a Combat-oriented Pretender. I see as 'clam factory', normally.

Mass Engineers

Perhaps the most underestimated GE Arco commander.

Midgame I rely on Golembatants until I get my Mystic Support Spells in Line

This (and the other Earth summons) is why I wish GE could get Golem Cult. Hell, if they charged GE 50 points and gave them auto-Golem Cult, I'd still play them.

Abuse of Communion at every concievable opportunity

This is fun with Mystics.

I'm most curious about that Daughter thing.

[Blitz]

However, I wasn't aware that the Evocation-7 necessary to cast Nether Darts qualified as 'especially early game'.

Healing light and nether bolt are evo 5 IIRC. With jotunheim that level of evocation is a high priority.

[ June 24, 2004, 03:16: Message edited by: Blitz ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
By daughter, do you mean the Daughter of the Land? I wasn't aware she was considered a Combat-oriented Pretender. I see as 'clam factory', normally.

She's the best of the 50 point humanoids, as she has giant stats, starts with water magic for quickness, and can easily afford to put another couple of paths at 3 magic for combat purposes. I use her with C'Tis an awful lot.